Do the P5 know about Jean's push?

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

It matters because since Scott and Emma are having problems already, it would further disillusion Emma about their relationship. As seen in fear itself, Emma already doubts whether Scott loves her. If she found out about the push, she would probably be even more disillusioned about the relationship.

Could we please refer to it as Emma getting angsty over Cyke not fussing over her and not being super jealous?

"Problems" doesn't exactly do justice to how one-sided the couple's current "issues" are.

[Sanji]

Why was it a doomed marriage?? before morrisson came in there was no indication of that...don't be so simplistic and selective in what you read...as you said somewhere else "simply not true"!

I'm not selective, I didn't agree with Morrison at first and I was really pissed at him, but then I thought about it and it made a lot of sense. He needs someone to push him and Jean never did (enough) until she died - but Emma does. She just knows how to deal with him better. And as xhx23x said, Whedon really did solidify them as a couple. There's no doubt they love each other.

[amhixson]

Get the detail correct, then. Jean pushed Scott to get over his guilt, not to be with Emma.

That's a matter of reader interpretation, but, ultimately, it doesn't really matter. Either way, the purpose of that scene was the same: to add legitimacy to Scott and Emma's coupling by having Jean give it her approval.

Someone had to broke it off, it was a doomed marriage.

Evidence? Scott and Jean weren't having any marital problems until Morrison took over. He invented their problems as part of his program to dismantle the core elements of the classic X-Men status quo and push the franchise in a new direction.

[keeper444]

I think it depends of how much you like a character. I hate the current emma, but I loved her in Gen X, also, if this means to break scott/emma I will be happy since I will preffer scott with any other couple by now. Also I think that scott/jean problem was taken out of proportion to fit the story, they were a couple with more than 12 years of marriage (if you count the time they time travel) and raised a child together, that is why I still don't like that run and heven't read it.

[Sanji]

Evidence? Scott and Jean weren't having any marital problems until Morrison took over.

I said it above. They didn't have any marital problems because Cyclops represses everything and Jean never pushed him hard enough and forced him to open up. If you don't agree that's fine, I think given their personalities, it was reasonable. That fact that they didn't have problems was in itself a problem.

[darknessatnoon]

They were having "issues" in Seagle's run and were clearly not happy (after being completely boring and having no chemistry all throughout the 90s - with him hitting on Psylocke just prior to their wedding). Jean had to fake hints of a fake pregnancy to keep his attention. Then he "died." Then he blatantly avoided her for the remaining Lobdell issues. We had him completely ignore her, despite the fact that she and Cable saved him from Apocalypse, by going camping with his dad. Moreover, he then left for Genosha with Wolverine. Then Casey showed him freezing her out, literally driving her into Wolverine's arms. THEN Morrison came along.

[Kymeric]

It's obvious that the Phoenix created mutants now. Cyclops is right. The similarities b/w the PF and OF are quite clear.

Dont forget that Apocalypse has been fornicating and creating mutants for thousands of years too! The Apocalypse/Dracula mini showed that various mutant powers show up depending on how interbred his offspring were with humans. The purer their blood was the more Apocalypsy their power sets were with Chamber and Blink being several generations removed.

Apocalypse is Father and the Phoenix is mother imho. Apocalypses descendants have physical mutations while the phoenixes descendants have psychic powers. Now mix and match and interbreed them for 5000 years and PRESTO, mutant race with endlessly diverse powers.

[Dr. Sonic]

Dont forget that Apocalypse has been fornicating and creating mutants for thousands of years too...

Maybe. But keep in mind that Apocalypse is merely the errand boy of the Celestials.

[darknessatnoon]

Maybe. But keep in mind that Apocalypse is merely the errand boy of the Celestials.

He's a thief. That's how he was referred to in First to Last by the angry Celestial Energy-Powered Monkeys.

[Dr. Sonic]

He's a thief. That's how he was referred to in First to Last by the angry Celestial Energy-Powered Monkeys.

Too many different interpretations of the Celestials to keep track of. Still, I love that Kirby was somehow able to squeeze Erich von Däniken into the canonized origins of the Marvel Universe.

[Emerald_616]

They were having "issues" in Seagle's run and were clearly not happy (after being completely boring and having no chemistry all throughout the 90s - with him hitting on Psylocke just prior to their wedding). Jean had to fake hints of a fake pregnancy to keep his attention. Then he "died." Then he blatantly avoided her for the remaining Lobdell issues. We had him completely ignore her, despite the fact that she and Cable saved him from Apocalypse, by going camping with his dad. Moreover, he then left for Genosha with Wolverine. Then Casey showed him freezing her out, literally driving her into Wolverine's arms. THEN Morrison came along.

THIS! and the "fake" pregnancy was supposed to be Jean being ACTUALLY pregnant with Rachel, but editorial changed plans/got in the way/f***ed everything up, as 90s X-editorial so often did to forward-thinking, original plot points.

[Dr. Sonic]

THIS! and the "fake" pregnancy was supposed to be Jean being ACTUALLY pregnant with Rachel, but editorial changed plans/got in the way/f***ed everything up, as 90s X-editorial so often did to forward-thinking, original plot points.

That's interesting, I didin't know that.
Still, it was pretty clear to me that Scott and Jean weren't very happy with one another. With the absence of a crisis to distract them, they were pretty miserable together.
Though he's cowed by Emma Frost, Scott seems much happier with her.

[alf_to_the_rescue]

That's interesting, I didin't know that.
Still, it was pretty clear to me that Scott and Jean weren't very happy with one another. With the absence of a crisis to distract them, they were pretty miserable together.
Though he's cowed by Emma Frost, Scott seems much happier with her.

They were happy sometimes. They were for a time in what some people call "Love" I think. Messy business that.



Either that or they both got turned on by fighting. Probably a bit of both.

[xhx23x]

I always viewed Scott and Jean as that High School couple that got committed too early and always over idealized each other. They love/loved each other, but they could never deal with real relationship issues. I think had they retired from the X-Men they might've had a better shot.

[Sanji]

I always viewed Scott and Jean as that High School couple that got committed too early and always over idealized each other. They love/loved each other, but they could never deal with real relationship issues

Couldn't have said it better.