PROMETHEUS - your reviews and rating

[Alex]

At one site they were saying that one element they edited from the movie where they were was some sort of explanation saying that Jesus was an emissary of the Engineers.

And the way it turned out....is the reason why the Engineers are pissed and want to end it all.

....
There is no possible way that would make sense.

[Nate Grey]

At one site they were saying that one element they edited from the movie where they were was some sort of explanation saying that Jesus was an emissary of the Engineers.

And the way it turned out....is the reason why the Engineers are pissed and want to end it all.

Yeah we already brought that up and talked about it last week.

[Sighphi]

....
There is no possible way that would make sense.

Why not?
But the actual trouble we have here is that the "invitation" that Shaw found has been shown in stuff AFTER the 2k year mark so if we take those pictograms as time the Jocks visited they must have calmed down because they did continued to come to earth.

[RIFRAF]

A useless prequel that raises more questions then answers. Interesting visual, confusing plot.

[Frank]

....
There is no possible way that would make sense.

I think it could make sense, I just don't think it's a particularly interesting idea.

Another concept that came up to me is that when the humans enter the big chamber of the Engineers, there's a mural on the roof looking like an Alien Queen. So instead of the black goo eventualy creating the Aliens, it could be the opposite: the Engineers captured an Alien and dissected it and creating the dangerous black goo from it. When the creature came out of the Engineers' belly it sort of felt like a being saying "i'm free!". That after all the dissections, the Alien that we know off returned to a form almost like its original design.

[Frank]

I'm not so sure...now that I think about it, that big gigantic head sculpture now makes sense: its a tribute to the second emissary.



Unless he changes course completely, we now have those answers. Why destroy humanity? = revenge for what happened to the second emissary. What happened on both LV-223 and LV-426? = They wanted to destroy humanity through biological warefare, but it kept backfiring during the development process. Trying to doom another race may have ultimately lead to the doom of their own.

This second emissary must have been important enough for them to, from that point on, devote their entire culture to wanting to wipe US out. I knew there was some sort of correlation from how the Engineers looked before the title sequence (clean, pure, serene, regal) to how the awakened Engineer looked (almost like a biomechanical cyborg, cold, unfeeling, corrupted). But I guess I now know why. Blind hatred over a species they helped seed brought them to that point?

That still leaves questions, though. How many times did they try? Is it just the two (LV-223 and LV-426), are there a few more, a dozen more, a HUNDRED more? And they ALL backfired? Are there some members of their society who feel the ones doing this should just let it go? Could that be why they simply didn't create a death star and wipe Earth from existence (actually, they might think Earth is viable for whatever purpose, they just need to get rid of us)?

What if the Black Plague came from the Engineers?

[Frank]

Maybe the Engineer downloaded some new program into David before popping his head off and killing the others. Then as David was retrieved, his new purpose kicked in?

Holly moley, you're smart!

[Jared]

Why not?
But the actual trouble we have here is that the "invitation" that Shaw found has been shown in stuff AFTER the 2k year mark so if we take those pictograms as time the Jocks visited they must have calmed down because they did continued to come to earth.

What was the date given for the most recent pictograms they found on Earth? I seem to recall the oldest was 30-35,000 years ago.

[Frank]

Don't forget that the biological weapon aspect is pure speculation on Janek's (and the fans'!) part, and an extrapolation of Burke's motivation in aliens. For all we know, the Engineers could be scientists studying the aliens as an interesting and dangerous species, religious zealots who view the aliens as the pinnacle of biological evolution and want to disseminate them throughout the universe; ruthless mafia men who view the aliens as a great way to get protection money from their neighbours; or simply tinkerers who decided to splice a few genes together and ended up with a glorious mess on their hands. We can also imagine, if we want to go down the "biological weapon" route, that the Engineers are no more united and rational a people than human beings and that there are fractions among them at war with each other. ("You threaten me with your chestbursters? FINE! Let me whip up a giant squid version of it with my black goo!")

The plan to wipe out humanity might be an extension of that. Perhaps some Engineers want to use their culture's skill in biology to spread life throughout the stars, and other Engineers view that as a dangerous idea (since some of the upstart species thus created might one day prove to threaten them).

I think you got it. I love the idea of the Engineers as religious zealots. This is the only way the Jesus concept would fit in a way that interest me. People have debated about the nature of our Universe that the Universe was created on its own or it was created via intelligent design. What if the Engineers would mix both ideas? Notice the way their machines works, like huge church organs. Like I said in another post, notice the big mural of something that looks like an Alien from the old movies as if it would be the God they worship or something. The Engineers could be some sort of religiously mad race and the humans would be unpure to them. Maybe because they would be corrupted by another religion(Christianity?).

[Cyke]

What if the Black Plague came from the Engineers?

Eh, as bad as the Black Plague was, it's nothing compared to anything we saw the Engineers do, including the one who seeded Earth. If the Engineers wanted to wipe out Medieval Earth, it seems the old Engineers could have done it much swifter and more devastating than the Plague. But hey, if the sequel proves me wrong, feel free to bring this post up again.

When watching older Alien films, I remember one of my first questions was how the classic facehugger since 1979 had the properties of both sperm and egg, and now this movie answers it -- if the black goo mutates but retains the characteristics of the organisms it touches, then it would imply that Shaw's egg was mutated as well around the time of conception. That is, while Shaw herself wasn't infected per se by idiot Charlie, it was her egg. The goo mutated his sperm, and the sperm mutated her egg. A fetus is the combination of the two, so we get a combination of actual physical, mechanical traits of two mutations, in that the facehugger both gestates and impregnates.

Also, the Engineers are already here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1599591.html

[Frank]

Eh, as bad as the Black Plague was, it's nothing compared to anything we saw the Engineers do, including the one who seeded Earth. If the Engineers wanted to wipe out Medieval Earth, it seems the old Engineers could have done it much swifter and more devastating than the Plague. But hey, if the sequel proves me wrong, feel free to bring this post up again.

When watching older Alien films, I remember one of my first questions was how the classic facehugger since 1979 had the properties of both sperm and egg, and now this movie answers it -- if the black goo mutates but retains the characteristics of the organisms it touches, then it would imply that Shaw's egg was mutated as well around the time of conception. That is, while Shaw herself wasn't infected per se by idiot Charlie, it was her egg. The goo mutated his sperm, and the sperm mutated her egg. A fetus is the combination of the two, so we get a combination of actual physical, mechanical traits of two mutations, in that the facehugger both gestates and impregnates.

Wich then results in the creation the first face hugger of sort, albeit in a giant form.

Like I said in another post though, did we see the first Alien in the end, or did the Engineer captured a few Aliens and experimented on them(creating the lethal black oil)? The mural in the chamber was an Alien Queen, right. And in the movie AVP, there's an emprisoned Alien Queen in a Mayan temple so the Aliens must have been there for a while.

Although if AVP must not be cannon, since the Engineers seem to be religious, maybe the Alien Queen painting in Prometheus is a prophecy.

[Cyke]

Wich then results in the creation the first face hugger of sort, albeit in a giant form.

Like I said in another post though, did we see the first Alien in the end, or did the Engineer captured a few Aliens and experimented on them(creating the lethal black oil)? The mural in the chamber was an Alien Queen, right. And in the movie AVP, there's an emprisoned Alien Queen in a Mayan temple so the Aliens must have been there for a while.

Although if AVP must not be cannon, since the Engineers seem to be religious, maybe the Alien Queen painting in Prometheus is a prophecy.

Yeah, we still have a ways to go before we get to the normal versions, since there's no Space Jockey in his seat and the film took place on a different planet. But I'd certainly like to see a sequel, and I'm glad that HR Giger came back to the franchise to "reverse-engineer" and simplify his classic designs.

And I pray that AVP isn't canon, if only because it took the laziest route possible to explain certain origins. Regardless what one things of the quality of Prometheus, I prefer the depth and mystery to that origin story over AVP.

Of course, I'd like to write a fanfic where the black goo is somehow related to the slime spectrum in Ghostbusters. Whee!

[the goddamn batman]

AvP isn't canon. Ridley Scott has mentioned in not-so-many-words that he is not a fan.

[choptop]

AvP isn't canon. Ridley Scott has mentioned in not-so-many-words that he is not a fan.

true but its not up to him its just like if james cameron did a new Alien movie and he says PROMETHEUS is not canon then they do a new avp movie and say Alien PROMETHEUS ane canon but thets it and it just keeps going and going. but thers not a lot to put avp in the non canon zone to me.

[Will.S]

I think his reaction to David was very interesting. He seems friendly to him, maybe pity? He views him as a slave or abomination? Also he only becomes aggressive after David presumably asks him for immortality on behalf of Weyland. Maybe the Engineer thinks that humans have grown above their station? We are nothing but ants to the Engineers, and we dare trespass on their facility and ask our creators for immortality?

Maybe there is a bit of fear there too? You can compare it to an artificial intelligence that becomes self aware. That's us. We are this experimental species that has come so far as to challenge our creators, even having the ability to create artificial life (with the androids). So the Engineers decide to pull the plug.

Yeah given the translation of David's dialogue online it makes a lot of sense as to why the Engineer would be pissed among the other range of emotions seen, especially given that this is the sect of Engineers that don't hold any sort of respect for humankind and would rather wipe them out with their own bio-weapons.

Don't forget that the biological weapon aspect is pure speculation on Janek's (and the fans'!) part, and an extrapolation of Burke's motivation in aliens. For all we know, the Engineers could be scientists studying the aliens as an interesting and dangerous species, religious zealots who view the aliens as the pinnacle of biological evolution and want to disseminate them throughout the universe; ruthless mafia men who view the aliens as a great way to get protection money from their neighbours; or simply tinkerers who decided to splice a few genes together and ended up with a glorious mess on their hands. We can also imagine, if we want to go down the "biological weapon" route, that the Engineers are no more united and rational a people than human beings and that there are fractions among them at war with each other. ("You threaten me with your chestbursters? FINE! Let me whip up a giant squid version of it with my black goo!")

The plan to wipe out humanity might be an extension of that. Perhaps some Engineers want to use their culture's skill in biology to spread life throughout the stars, and other Engineers view that as a dangerous idea (since some of the upstart species thus created might one day prove to threaten them).

After mulling it over and looking at all of the interviews and theories I've ultimately come to the conclusion that there are indeed two (or more) warring factions of Engineers which actually explains a A LOT of the bigger picture story.

The title of Prometheus itself is a big indicator of what Scott is going for by mixing myth, science fiction, and religion and isn't really just the name of the ship although one can easily see the title applying through several layers of the film. The whole stealing fire from the gods story can be applied to the religious sect of Engineers (or Engineer to be more specific) taking the black goo (the allegory of fire), and giving life to various planets. What further cements the opposing sects for me is several things:

1) The Engineer and space ship seen in the prologue look simpler and cleaner than the ones seen on LV-223 whom look more bio-mechanical with their ships having a more menacing and horseshoe design.

2) While Ridley says that the opening scene could be of any planet I do think that the overall story he wants to tell is about humanity's relation to the Engineers both of the good and bad variety. The cave paintings/carvings seen in various locations throughout time are less likely to be invitations but warnings from the same sect of benevolent Engineers that have visited earth over the years looking at humanity's progress and maybe even looking out for us.



It's interesting that Shaw and Holloway found underlying topographical information about the engineer star system when combined but pictorially they can also be seen as potential warning messages saying more along the lines of: "We bring you warning that there are ships coming here that contain death" which brings me to the third numbering.

3) While I suppose the "our creations have run afoul of us" logic can be applied, it doesn't really add up when you look at the overall story. The more war like race of bio-mechanical Engineers don't strike me as careless or stupid enough just let their weapons run amok unless there were some outliers to explain this. What makes the most logical sense to me is that the events of LV-223 and LV-426 previous to human intervention were the result of sabotage by the other sect of "good" Engineers whom protect humanity and perhaps even life on other planets which would explain the star map David found having all those planets as targets and why the ships/temples on LV-223/LV-426 were in the condition they were in.

Ridley's made a lot of references to religion and literary works like Paradise Lost and Dark Angels so the bigger picture stuff makes a lot of sense when seen in the "Engineers have been warring" sort of light.

true but its not up to him its just like if james cameron did a new Alien movie and he says PROMETHEUS is not canon then they do a new avp movie and say Alien PROMETHEUS ane canon but thets it and it just keeps going and going. but thers not a lot to put avp in the non canon zone to me.

I've never really done a whole time line from Predator--> Predator 2--> AVP--> AVP:R/Predators--> Alien--> Aliens--> Alien 3--> to Alien Resurrection so I suppose if you make a lot of rationalizations it might perhaps fit. I mean heck there are some clashing depictions of the Alien life cycle from Alien to Aliens too but that's really easily explained.

Personally I tend to think brain and heart of the Alien universe belong to the Ridley Scott/James Cameron films and the same can be said even of the Predator films as standalone ventures. None of the other sequels or prequels seem to contain the same level of craft or ambition that Prometheus, Alien, or Aliens do and while they may be entertaining in their own right they just barely contribute to the overall mythology aside from little pieces of puzzle fitting that may or may not jive with the other predecessor movies.