Thank God for Nolan and Batman Begins.

**Etoma** · 06-21-2012, 03:51 AM

Originally Posted by Predator jp

Captain America's costume in Avengers is just horrible.

Hated it every trailer and TV spot I saw, but in the movie itself, it fails to take away anything from the character. Speaks to how good the movie was.

**Jim Thompson** · 06-21-2012, 03:58 AM

You know, after re-reading the original post that got this thread rolling, while I disagree with the notion that the Nolan Batman films are the only one's out there to capture the essence of the character (for me, there are too many elements incorporated in the movies that were introduced in the 70s to make a claim that somehow the Nolan movies are just channeling the original 1939 intent), I personally find the to be the most entertaining Batman films ever done. The only character element I really miss in these films is Batman's detective skills.

**Etoma** · 06-21-2012, 05:07 AM

I agree with the lack of the Detective element; Batman is the dark knight, but he is also the world's greatest detective. All this considered, Nolan should be given credit, comic book movies are not easy to make well. Now, if only we could something about Bale's Batman voice.

**Jim Thompson** · 06-21-2012, 05:09 AM

Originally Posted by Etoma

Now, if only we could something about Bale's Batman voice.

That's something that has never bothered me -- though I would say I don't think he did as good a job with that aspect of the character as Michael Keaton did.

**Etoma** · 06-21-2012, 05:22 AM

The scene at the end of the dark knight with two face, Gordon and Batman was one of the most powerful of the entire movie. But every time Batman spoke I felt distracted by how forced and unnatural he sounded, it took away from the emotional power of the dialogue. I don't expect Bale to sound like Kevin Conroy, but I would like something a little less distracting. The only time his Batman voice worked for me was in the interrogation scene withe Joker.

**Randumbz** · 06-21-2012, 05:28 AM

Originally Posted by Jim Thompson

If by horrible you mean awesome, I agree with you.

I agree with you

**Lord Bravery** · 06-21-2012, 05:28 AM

My problem with the Bat voice is that yea, it's forced, it's unnatural. He's trying too hard. Batman should come to Bruce Wayne almost subconsciously. But with that voice he's consciously trying to sound scary or something.

Keaton's Batman was more frightening with just a glare and a whisper than Bale can ever be with his over the top histrionics.

**Jim Thompson** · 06-21-2012, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by Etoma

The scene at the end of the dark knight with two face, Gordon and Batman was one of the most powerful of the entire movie. But every time Batman spoke I felt distracted by how forced and unnatural he sounded, it took away from the emotional power of the dialogue. I don't expect Bale to sound like Kevin Conroy, but I would like something a little less distracting. The only time his Batman voice worked for me was in the interrogation scene withe Joker.

Again, hasn't bothered me in the slightest.

Originally Posted by Lord Bravery

Keaton's Batman was more frightening with just a glare and a whisper ...

I very much agree with this. I don't believe he gets near enough credit for the quality of his performance as Bruce Wayne/Batman.

**Etoma** · 06-21-2012, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by Jim Thompson

Again, hasn't bothered me in the slightest.

Different tastes.

**Jim Thompson** · 06-21-2012, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by Etoma

Different tastes.

Sort of. I'd say it's likely more a matter of different outlooks/perspectives.

**Lord Bravery** · 06-21-2012, 05:36 AM

Yea, people go on about him not being this great physical specimen, which is a fair complaint. But i think he made up for it with the subtleties to his performance. You could see the pain and anger in his eyes. There was just something about him that made him creepy and intimidating that i don't think any other Batman actor has really been able to do.

Bale's obviously great with the physicality of the role. Specifically in Begins. But eh, like i said, i just think he tries a bit too hard to be intimidating.

**Jim Thompson** · 06-21-2012, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by Lord Bravery

Yea, people go on about him not being this great physical specimen, which is a fair complaint. But i think he made up for it with the subtleties to his performance. You could see the pain and anger in his eyes. There was just something about him that made him creepy and intimidating that i don't think any other Batman actor has really been able to do.

Again, I completely agree. Keaton gave a pretty deep, nuanced performance both times he played the role. I think he's a much better actor than people give him credit for. If he'd had the scripts Bale is working with, man, I would have loved to see that!

**edge007** · 06-21-2012, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian

Eh, as has been brought up multiple times Batman IS a character that is open to multiple interpretations depending on what type of story the author wishes to tell. Batman can fight aliens in space, travel through time, fight brightly colored villains with the violence obscured with Bams and Pows and he can kill or just let villains die and no version is more "real" or "true".

You can have preferences about which version you like the best, but there isn't any way to argue that there is a "true" version of Batman.

Wasn't arguing that, but like I said, there are some fundamentals that just shouldn't be touched.

Originally Posted by Jeff Brady

How is Harvey Dent at the end of TDK?

Heh, thanks for pointing that out. Seems like Nolan didn't get that right in his sequel, either. Like I said, great crime film, but just a so-so superhero film.

Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes

What's a stretch? I get you don't like it, but it's plausible enough. As it is, Batman has been known to be trained by people who are like Ra's.

Like Ra's, fine, but Ra's, himself? Sorry, that's just taking it too far from the source material, IMHO.

Well ninjas are awesome. But anyway, the point of Begins was using fear as a weapon, becoming truly invisible, etc. etc. Maybe you don't like these things, but this is a problem you would have with the whole concept of a huge chunk of the movie, not Ra's training him.

I have a problem with both, actually, which is why I vastly prefer TDK. Also, in regards to ninjas, they ARE awesome (in fact, Ninja Assassin is probably one of my favorite guilty pleasure movies), but that's not all of what Batman is.

Also, I'll add that he IS a detective, but he uses technology and CSI, not Sherlock Holmes powers of observation and deduction.

Which is a shame because this (along with Lucius seemingly doing most of the true detective work, himself) really undercuts just how smart Batman should be.

Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes

Unlike those films, Batman doesn't rely on sci-fi, outlandish trappings.

Exactly, which should make staying truer to Batman's core much, much easier.

Hardly a "core essence of the character" especially when the original Batman didn't mind killing. The idea of an absolute, no-killing rule was just a contrived product of the Comics Code.

And after the CC was abandoned, DC stuck with it and many, many great stories have been published centering around that as dark and gritty as he is, this is one line he will never cross.

Originally Posted by Lord Bravery

Night Owl from Snyder's Watchmen has had the best Batman costume in live action. It had a removable hood like cowl and everything. And there was no hindrance with the martial arts choreography.

That was a pretty good costume and I do remember thinking as I was watching it why Bats can't have a costume more similar to that.

The choreography in Nolan's Batman movies thus far has been beyond terrible.

This is probably my second biggest complaint about the suit. He was trained all that time by ninjas and he's wearing a suit that gives absolutely no indication of any of that at all.

Originally Posted by Lord Bravery

And the subsequent film didn't even acknowledge what he did to Ra's. Could have made for an interesting development exploring the moral implications of what he did on the train.

I agree. It would've served as an excellent reason why he didn't just leave The Joker to fall to his death.

Side note, when I went to see this movie in the theaters, there were actually people booing when Batman saved The Joker at the end of TDK. Booing! Seriously, wtf, man? Some people just do not get the character at all...

Originally Posted by Lord Bravery

The TDK suit needs another layer other it, some kind of fabric. The armour plates make sense, but not as an exoskeleton looking thing, it'd look so much cooler if they weren't visible i think.

I agree. It makes him look too human and not the creature of the night image he's trying to project.

Originally Posted by Dr. Hurt

I really liked it too, but sometimes he looked like a cosplayer. Mostly because of the helmet. It gave him a bobblehead.

They should've gone with the suit from Cap's own movie, IMHO, but I read somewhere that Whedon wanted something that resembled the regular Cap outfit as much as possible. I could forgive that considering just how incredibly amazing The Avengers was and as I was watching the movie, it didn't look as bad as I thought it would.

Sorry about the onslaught of posts, btw. Kind of a slow news day. :)