Why the love for the Black Panther?

[Legion_Quest]

My point wasn't so much about how he is meant to be, but more about how people see him. I have no idea why people see him this way, and I may indeed look up some of these runs to see, but surely the point stands that in some ways, he is written as a character who it's very easy to dislike in terms of people always tending to enjoy to read about characters whose lives suck (which seems to be the thing with Marvel readers, the top selling books over the years have always been the characters whose lives are far from the super intelligent king of a country)

[Ikonic]

Legion_Quest,

Please re-read the thread title. That is all.

[marvell2100]

My point wasn't so much about how he is meant to be, but more about how people see him. I have no idea why people see him this way, and I may indeed look up some of these runs to see, but surely the point stands that in some ways, he is written as a character who it's very easy to dislike in terms of people always tending to enjoy to read about characters whose lives suck (which seems to be the thing with Marvel readers, the top selling books over the years have always been the characters whose lives are far from the super intelligent king of a country)

A king who's father was murdered, uncle murdered, mother kidnapped and country attacked on countless occasions. So he's not living a fairy tale life here. Namor is an arrogant king and people like him. Doom is a super genius and arrogant and people like him.

[Wellman]

When written correctly, he is smart badass that uses awesome tech and usually comes up with some sort of scheme or flaw enemies didn't expect to win battles where most of his power set would be written as outclassed.

[FriendRoss]

in my research

panthers "marvel flaw" (all the good characters have a problem of some sort, a weakness)



panthers biggest weaknesses also happen to be his strengths in my opinion… his self confidence, his ego, stubbornness, his reliance on "wakandan traditions" and or tech, his preference to being totally self dependent, not asking others for help. fighting above his pay grade, overestimating his skills


all these things that make him who he is. are also his biggest weakness. its a contrast i find very interesting

[The Ultimate Trufph Speaker]

Because there is nothing Black Panther can't do. He's super smart genius type, he's a master of all combats and his nation is the greatest in the world. He's perfect.

[AgPhoenix]

Do yourself a favor and Ignore Post #36. There's nothing of value or intelligence contained within it. Just go about the discussion as before.

[Legion_Quest]

Legion_Quest,

Please re-read the thread title. That is all.

The guy asked why people liked him, I suggested why and then suggested why not.

Wow, a discussion on a discussion forum! Who'd have thought it!

That is all.

in my research

panthers "marvel flaw" (all the good characters have a problem of some sort, a weakness)



panthers biggest weaknesses also happen to be his strengths in my opinion… his self confidence, his ego, stubbornness, his reliance on "wakandan traditions" and or tech, his preference to being totally self dependent, not asking others for help. fighting above his pay grade, overestimating his skills


all these things that make him who he is. are also his biggest weakness. its a contrast i find very interesting

Yeah, I think is something that perhaps needs to come to the front a bit more if he is going to become a bigger character than he is now. I think it comes across a bit in DoomWar, in that until he figured out what to do he was really getting a bit flustered, and that interested me a lot more than reading about the super ninja king who can plan to beat everyone.

I guess I just like my flaws a bit too much, lol.

As for the Namor and Doom comparisons, Doom is a villain and doesn't have his own series and Namor hasn't been able to support his own series for a long run since Byrne in the early 90s.

I am going to look up some of the BP stuff, as the debates I've had about the character have really intrigued me and I'd like to know more than just what I can see from reviews and reactions from his fans to have a judgement.

[Umbra]

My point wasn't so much about how he is meant to be, but more about how people see him. I have no idea why people see him this way, and I may indeed look up some of these runs to see, but surely the point stands that in some ways, he is written as a character who it's very easy to dislike in terms of people always tending to enjoy to read about characters whose lives suck (which seems to be the thing with Marvel readers, the top selling books over the years have always been the characters whose lives are far from the super intelligent king of a country)

Why are you posting about something you are not really clear about, as 100% fact? Because of things you heard? Truth is he was damaged by writers dumbing him down, watering him down and jobbing him out! Not by Priest who basically restored the character to what he was suppose to be!

He's not as big because he's also African and Black! How many huge black heroes are in this medium? Sans Spawn, who no one actually knew was Black and Storm, who can't even get a solo and was a sexual fetish. Let's cut through the BS. Like I said before he isn't for every one! What character is? I don't know of any.

Like Marvell said with Namor, Doom..what's the difference? He's certainly not perfect, so let's not go there..with guys like Thor running around, please don't bring it up! Yes, he is formidable and who cares how "people see him" ..what people? There are others who don't see him that way. There are others who have never heard of him! So you can't say that!

And he has flaws, chief among them being that lived his entire life in the shadow of his father "The Great King," T'Chaka. He views himself as, largely, a caretaker of his father's legacy, an overseer of his father's lands. In self-critical state he will typically fault himself for not living up to his father's legacy! That's one of his character flaws.

Folks who actually read his title know this..those other "people who see him that way" might not ever be fans..so what? Who cares what they think? They will never be fans and that's fine. If they are not fans of what what he is, they will never be. It's that simple.

[Ian Pressman]

Black Panther is a genuinely cool character. He was created in an era where being black was not synonymous with being cool, so his very existence back then was pretty radical. I'm less acquainted with his comics form than I am his animated counterpart in the Ultimate Avengers movie, and Avengers EMH, but I did read a TPB a few years ago where he jobbed Mephisto, and won a man his soul back in exchange for a pair of pants, earning my everlasting admiration.

[Greg Anderson]

Originally I used to look at Black Panther and think, "Meh. Looks like a joke of Batman." That was until I picked up Christopher Priest's first trade. Just one story arc and I was obsessed and became a devoting fan. When I was younger, I personally didn't feel Marvel and DC's black characters were really for me. On the surface level, I was always disappointed when I seen them or was given a run down of their abilities. Only Bishop stood out to me. But here was Black Panther, a black man who was a king of an unconquered African country. Not only was he a king, but he was a bad-ass warrior, he was competent despite his flaws, and he always thought ahead. The man is as smart as he is as tough as nails and he never backs down for what he believes him. What really made him stand out for me as I read further on with Priest's run was that while he would win the battles, he always lost something. He was a hard man to figure out and that pulled me in. He would be seen as too prideful and arrogant, but a lot of that was usually to protect something whether it was himself, his people, or a lover. I liked being able to look up to a character on this level and it's really a shame how downplayed he is.

One thing I did find interesting also was that Priest mentions when he was first asked to write Black Panther, he had my initial reaction, referring to him as a bit of a joke. It wasn't until he looked back on T'Challa's previous stories did he notice how complex he was. One of the issues is that besides the original stories and a few writers nowadays here and there, people just don't know what to do with him. There's a lot of layouts from over the years, but people just disregard him. I've heard plenty of times people ask me, "Wait, Black Panther has powers?" And people discredit any type of feat he's done. The fact that he's as smart as Iron Man annoys people, the fact that he can tag Spider-Man and pin him down angers people, the fact that he can dodge and evade Wolverine angers people. Seems anything that happens with this character causes some strife. This even goes back to Priest who got hate letters from fans who felt T'Challa was being portrayed far too competent while Priest stated he was only writing the character from how he was in the past before people reduced him to a joke. I've read enough takes of Panther where his drive and determination just pulls me in and inspires me as a person. Quite a few characters in comics mean a lot to me and have helped me through some hardships. T'Challa is high up on the list.

Also, there's the mythology of the Panther tribe along with Wakanda. An unconquered African nation with their own resources, and a wonderful mixture of old school African traditions with futuristic sci-fi elements. The various cultures and nations within the country, the characters and residents of Wakanda, the Dora Milaje, the Dogs of War, etc. There's sooo much material for Wakanda but a lot of them are in the past and not being showcased and thus it's all disregarded and shoved to the side. It seems only recently Marvel is releasing the old Black Panther stories but its still a damn travesty that they refuse to reprint all of Priest's run, a run that would shut a lot of the naysayers up and get some new fans to actually understand who the character is.

[Ikonic]

Legion_Quest,

Again, re-read the thread title. Now if you want to talk about all-encompassing things related to BP, there's a thread for that. Try it.

[marvell2100]

Originally I used to look at Black Panther and think, "Meh. Looks like a joke of Batman." That was until I picked up Christopher Priest's first trade. Just one story arc and I was obsessed and became a devoting fan. When I was younger, I personally didn't feel Marvel and DC's black characters were really for me. On the surface level, I was always disappointed when I seen them or were given a run down of their abilities. Only Bishop stood out to me. But here was Black Panther, a black man who was a king of an unconquered African country. Not only was he a king, but he was a bad-ass warrior, he was competent despite his flaws, and he always thought ahead. The man is as smart as he is as tough as nails and he never backs down for what he believes him. What really made him stand out for me as I read further on with Priest's run was that while he would win the battles, he always lost something. He was a hard man to figure out and that pulled me in. He would be seen as too prideful and arrogant, but a lot of that was usually to protect something whether it was himself, his people, or a lover. I liked being able to look up to a character on this level and it's really a shame how downplayed he is.

One thing I did find interesting also was that Priest mentions when he was first asked to write Black Panther, he had my initial reaction, referring to him as a bit of a joke. It wasn't until he looked back on T'Challa's previous stories did he notice how complex he was. One of the issues is that decides the original stories and a few writers nowadays, people just don't know what to do with him. There's a lot of layouts from over the years, but people just disregard him. I've heard plenty of times people ask me, "Wait, Black Panther has powers?" And people discredit any type of feat he's done. The fact that he's as smart as Iron Man annoys people, the fact that he can tag Spider-Man and pin him down angers people, the fact that he can dodge and evade Wolverine angers people. Seems anything that happens with this character causes some strife. Thins even goes back to Priest who got hate letters from fans who felt T'Challa was being portrayed far too competent while Priest stated he was only writing the character from how he was in the past before people reduced him to a joke. I've read enough takes of Panther where his drive and determination just pulls me in and inspires me as a person. Quite a few characters in comics mean a lot to me and have helped me through some hardships. T'Challa is high up on the list.

Also, there's the mythology of the Panther tribe along with Wakanda. An unconquered African nation with their own resources, and a wonderful mixture of old school African traditions with futuristic sci-fi elements. The various cultures and nations within the country, the characters and residents of Wakanda, the Dora Milaje, the Dogs of War, etc. There's sooo much material for Wakanda but a lot of them are in the past and not being showcased and thus it's all disregarded and shoved to the side. It seems only recently Marvel is releasing the old Black Panther stories but its still a damn travesty that they refuse to reprint all of Priest's run, a run that would shut a lot of the naysayers up and get some new fans to actually understand who the character is.

This is just a great post Greg.

[Umbra]

Great post Greg. Remember when you first came on like that too! After reading the Client, it was the same for me. Great post.

Originally I used to look at Black Panther and think, "Meh. Looks like a joke of Batman." That was until I picked up Christopher Priest's first trade. Just one story arc and I was obsessed and became a devoting fan. When I was younger, I personally didn't feel Marvel and DC's black characters were really for me. On the surface level, I was always disappointed when I seen them or was given a run down of their abilities. Only Bishop stood out to me. But here was Black Panther, a black man who was a king of an unconquered African country. Not only was he a king, but he was a bad-ass warrior, he was competent despite his flaws, and he always thought ahead. The man is as smart as he is as tough as nails and he never backs down for what he believes him. What really made him stand out for me as I read further on with Priest's run was that while he would win the battles, he always lost something. He was a hard man to figure out and that pulled me in. He would be seen as too prideful and arrogant, but a lot of that was usually to protect something whether it was himself, his people, or a lover. I liked being able to look up to a character on this level and it's really a shame how downplayed he is.

One thing I did find interesting also was that Priest mentions when he was first asked to write Black Panther, he had my initial reaction, referring to him as a bit of a joke. It wasn't until he looked back on T'Challa's previous stories did he notice how complex he was. One of the issues is that besides the original stories and a few writers nowadays here and there, people just don't know what to do with him. There's a lot of layouts from over the years, but people just disregard him. I've heard plenty of times people ask me, "Wait, Black Panther has powers?" And people discredit any type of feat he's done. The fact that he's as smart as Iron Man annoys people, the fact that he can tag Spider-Man and pin him down angers people, the fact that he can dodge and evade Wolverine angers people. Seems anything that happens with this character causes some strife. This even goes back to Priest who got hate letters from fans who felt T'Challa was being portrayed far too competent while Priest stated he was only writing the character from how he was in the past before people reduced him to a joke. I've read enough takes of Panther where his drive and determination just pulls me in and inspires me as a person. Quite a few characters in comics mean a lot to me and have helped me through some hardships. T'Challa is high up on the list.

Also, there's the mythology of the Panther tribe along with Wakanda. An unconquered African nation with their own resources, and a wonderful mixture of old school African traditions with futuristic sci-fi elements. The various cultures and nations within the country, the characters and residents of Wakanda, the Dora Milaje, the Dogs of War, etc. There's sooo much material for Wakanda but a lot of them are in the past and not being showcased and thus it's all disregarded and shoved to the side. It seems only recently Marvel is releasing the old Black Panther stories but its still a damn travesty that they refuse to reprint all of Priest's run, a run that would shut a lot of the naysayers up and get some new fans to actually understand who the character is.

[Alan Smithee]

In addition to the good stuff mentioned earlier, (and as a guy who worked and studied in Africa for several years), BP represents a pre-colonial Africa and leader of a nation that might have evolved had not the West colonized the hell out of it and the superpowers hadn't obscenely manipulated it (most of the despots, like Mobutu, were CIA stooges). Yeah, great costume, great landmark for comix diversity, but also a What If? if the plundered and exploited continent had evolved organically.

And--did I mention this?--monikers and costumes for superheros don't get much better. Still, didn't Marvel drop the "Black" from BP for a bit in the late 60s/early 70s because of a fear it was a representation of the Black Panther political movement? Goddampussies.

I'm talkin' to YOU, Stan Lee.