Worlds' Finest #2 Preview/Discussion

[Conway]

Or.... maybe just accept that it's a fun COMIC book and not get hung up on COMIC book "logic"?

That's good advice and I'm loving E2, great stuff. Suspending my disbelief that people can fly is one thing, but expecting the daughter of Bruce Wayne and Selena Kyle not to contact the alternate version of her parents is a matter of human nature. Not to mention that someone trained to be a hero her whole life not having any loyalty to her trainer or parents seems like very anti-heroic values. Then I'm supposed to believe on top of all that, that Lex and Bruce aren't business men involved in their empires, and Superman doesn't care if anyone steals advanced tech for traveling between dimensions. That "The World's Greatest Detective" wouldn't notice anyone stealing from him no matter how good they were. I'm not trying to say it shouldn't be fun, but a plot hole in a story is one thing, this is Swiss Cheese.

Basically for this story to make any sense everything we know about Superman, Batman, and Lex Luthor has to be discounted, and everything we've ever learned about what it means to be Robin is trash.

[Crisis]

The "bigger than Darkseid" threat to E2 is working it's way on both worlds for some reason.

Which is the threat that Pandora was talking about in the last Issue of Flashpoint.

[FIFTY-TWO (52)]

That's good advice and I'm loving E2, great stuff. Suspending my disbelief that people can fly is one thing, but expecting the daughter of Bruce Wayne and Selena Kyle not to contact the alternate version of her parents is a matter of human nature.

Why, exactly, would she do that? She's well aware that they aren't her parents and that their situations on the Earth are vastly different than on her own world. Also note, that Bruce Wayne has his own son with a big time villain and a couple of adopted sons. She can keep tabs from afar, but trying to get in on this family isn't a smart move right now.

Not to mention that someone trained to be a hero her whole life not having any loyalty to her trainer or parents seems like very anti-heroic values.

The Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle of Prime Earth aren't her parents. She doesn't owe them anything.

Then I'm supposed to believe on top of all that, that Lex and Bruce aren't business men involved in their empires

Well, we know Bruce certainly isn't all that attached.

Superman doesn't care if anyone steals advanced tech for traveling between dimensions.

Would Superman even be aware of this, given that he's not plugged into the on-goings of the 1%?

That "The World's Greatest Detective" wouldn't notice anyone stealing from him no matter how good they were.

He wouldn't know unless someone at the company brought it up to him.
Of course he could know and is simply biding his time.

Basically for this story to make any sense everything we know about Superman, Batman, and Lex Luthor has to be discounted, and everything we've ever learned about what it means to be Robin is trash.

Except we don't know everything about Superman, Batman, and Lex Luthor in this new continuity.

[Conway]

Why, exactly, would she do that? She's well aware that they aren't her parents and that their situations on the Earth are vastly different than on her own world. Also note, that Bruce Wayne has his own son with a big time villain and a couple of adopted sons. She can keep tabs from afar, but trying to get in on this family isn't a smart move right now.



The Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle of Prime Earth aren't her parents. She doesn't owe them anything.



Well, we know Bruce certainly isn't all that attached.



Would Superman even be aware of this, given that he's not plugged into the on-goings of the 1%?



He wouldn't know unless someone at the company brought it up to him.
Of course he could know and is simply biding his time.



Except we don't know everything about Superman, Batman, and Lex Luthor in this new continuity.

Okay, say I buy the whole "lost little girl doesn't seek out alternate versions of her parents for comfort" story line. There are still some issues.

Action Comics has made it pretty clear that Lex is obsessed with advanced and alien tech, and his need to defeat "The Superman". Karen Starr would be an enemy of that goal, and "Art of War" Lex would try to know everything possible about his opponent, including a DNA profile.

Superman obviously still stands for "Truth and Justice" (am I the only one that misses the tongue in cheek references to "The American Way"), and Karen Starr is "borrowing" advanced technologies some of that must be from labs in Metropolis. That is exactly the kind of ongoing crime spree Superman loves to stop.

Lucius Fox and Damian are both heavily involved in the day to day business of Wayne Ent. and both of them have caught embezzlers before. But Helena gets caught 5 years later by a bank clerk? And by the looks of it we aren't talking pennies here, we are talking long term continued theft of 7 figures or more. Even in a multi-billion dollar company that would be hard to miss.

When she burned Helena B's ID she insinuated that the Death of Huntress actually happened and she had been her the whole time. That means interaction with Batman, and again he didn't do a DNA work up on the vigilante in his town.

DC has said several times that the reboot isn't a restart. It allows them to get rid of pesky annoying stuff (i.e. Huntress seducing her adopted brother Dick) but still keep the basic concept of the characters and their history. Batman is still "the World's Greatest Detective", Superman still acts like a boyscout and tries to stop every crime no matter how small, and Lex Luthor is still a brutal ruthless businessman out to destroy Superman and anyone that stands in his way. And even the homicidal assassin that is the current Robin knows vigilante justice is wrong and killing people will only put you on the wrong side of The Bat and GCPD.

These aren't tiny issues that you can discard like the laws of gravity these are the rules that DC created and carried through the reboot. The NuDCU is almost a year old and unless they are about to restart again, this story needs a lot of BS answered to fit with everything else around it.

[Conway]

Double post

[Flashpoint]

Okay, say I buy the whole "lost little girl doesn't seek out alternate versions of her parents for comfort" story line. There are still some issues.

Action Comics has made it pretty clear that Lex is obsessed with advanced and alien tech, and his need to defeat "The Superman". Karen Starr would be an enemy of that goal, and "Art of War" Lex would try to know everything possible about his opponent, including a DNA profile.

Superman obviously still stands for "Truth and Justice" (am I the only one that misses the tongue in cheek references to "The American Way"), and Karen Starr is "borrowing" advanced technologies some of that must be from labs in Metropolis. That is exactly the kind of ongoing crime spree Superman loves to stop.

Lucius Fox and Damian are both heavily involved in the day to day business of Wayne Ent. and both of them have caught embezzlers before. But Helena gets caught 5 years later by a bank clerk? And by the looks of it we aren't talking pennies here, we are talking long term continued theft of 7 figures or more. Even in a multi-billion dollar company that would be hard to miss.

When she burned Helena B's ID she insinuated that the Death of Huntress actually happened and she had been her the whole time. That means interaction with Batman, and again he didn't do a DNA work up on the vigilante in his town.

DC has said several times that the reboot isn't a restart. It allows them to get rid of pesky annoying stuff (i.e. Huntress seducing her adopted brother Dick) but still keep the basic concept of the characters and their history. Batman is still "the World's Greatest Detective", Superman still acts like a boyscout and tries to stop every crime no matter how small, and Lex Luthor is still a brutal ruthless businessman out to destroy Superman and anyone that stands in his way. And even the homicidal assassin that is the current Robin knows vigilante justice is wrong and killing people will only put you on the wrong side of The Bat and GCPD.

These aren't tiny issues that you can discard like the laws of gravity these are the rules that DC created and carried through the reboot. The NuDCU is almost a year old and unless they are about to restart again, this story needs a lot of BS answered to fit with everything else around it.

Dude...get real. No one is going to tell Grant Morrison that he has to share Lex Luthor right in the middle of his revamping and revision of the character from the ground up in Action Comics. Morrison has sole dibs on Luthor. Until he's done laying the ground work, Luthor won't be seen all over the DCU. It simply isn't going to happen. You try and tell Morrison he just HAS to share Luthor with Paul Levitz or you're going to get mad and stuff. I doubt that he'll care that you think Levitz should be able to use Luthor in his book.

You don't like the book? Fine. That's absolutely your right. But you are not going to start dictating to any creator at DC which characters they should or shouldn't include in their stories. Especially when one of DC's Top Two writers is literally recreating Luthor from scratch. The fact you think Luthor "ought" to be in WF is utterly irrelevant. And frankly, I've no interest in seeing Luthor here. Let him stay in Action where Morrison can finish laying all the groundwork that he's started.

[Conway]

Dude...get real. No one is going to tell Grant Morrison that he has to share Lex Luthor right in the middle of his revamping and revision of the character from the ground up in Action Comics. Morrison has sole dibs on Luthor. Until he's done laying the ground work, Luthor won't be seen all over the DCU. It simply isn't going to happen. You try and tell Morrison he just HAS to share Luthor with Paul Levitz or you're going to get mad and stuff. I doubt that he'll care that you think Levitz should be able to use Luthor in his book.

You don't like the book? Fine. That's absolutely your right. But you are not going to start dictating to any creator at DC which characters they should or shouldn't include in their stories. Especially when one of DC's Top Two writers is literally recreating Luthor from scratch. The fact you think Luthor "ought" to be in WF is utterly irrelevant. And frankly, I've no interest in seeing Luthor here. Let him stay in Action where Morrison can finish laying all the groundwork that he's started.

Morrison has earned it, and Action is great. I'm not demanding anything. I'm saying that DC claims that the reboot was about solving continuity issues (we all know it was really about profit). They don't have to try and fit everything into a continuity that was becoming too complicated to deal with. Then in the Second wave of that reboot they drop something like this that has absolutely no ability to fit their new continuity is a problem.

Honestly, I can wait a few more issues for them to introduce some more back story (maybe it's ready to go), but the biggest problem is Helena Wayne. She didn't work 40 years ago and there is no reason to believe she will work now. Her very existence makes Batman look dumb, and he is their flagship, anything that harms him harms DC.

[Crisis]

How did Helena Wayne not work 40 years ago? (she's not that old) and How does she make Batman look dumb??? explain please.

[Conway]

How did Helena Wayne not work 40 years ago? (she's not that old) and How does she make Batman look dumb??? explain please.

The Huntress Mini and WF indicate she has been Helena Wayne all the time. For Batman to not know she's his daughter or that she faked her own death, makes him a bad detective if nothing else.

She was one of the problems the editors were happy COIE fixed, and sorry I meant 35 years ago.

Does anyone think that Helena B wasn't a great character? Angst, duality, getting tossed from JLA great stuff. Helena Wayne is really just a female Damian, that can't even interact with Batman.

[Sacred Knight]

So... Supergirl and Robin get blasted into another dimension and don't reach out to the hero's and friends of that world for help. Bruce's daughter gets blasted into another dimension and she doesn't reach out for help. Helena steals from Wayne Ent. and fights crime in Gotham and Batman doesn't notice. A sexy new billionaire comes from nowhere, buys up over half of the planet's Advanced Tech (with money stolen from Wayne Ent.), gets the cover of TIME and Bruce and Lex don't notice. What Karen doesn't buy she "borrows" and Superman doesn't notice. Power Girl being Kara is about the only thing that makes sense in this whole story. They need to just do a whole issue of back story if they want to save this mess. And the new Power Girl outfit doesn't fit the character.

Prime Earth Bruce Wayne is not Helena's father. Prime Earth Superman is not Karen's cousin. And they have no friends here. Its a parallel world, its not their world. I don't really get why people are so quick to assume that the only logical move would be for them to greet these people with open arms and full trust. Extreme reluctance to come into contact with these people is an incredibly plausible mindset for a variety of reasons.

And why would Superman notice Karen in the first place? He has no reason to key in on her. Supergirl hasn't arrived yet on when Karen shows up and amasses her fortune, so even if Clark were to come across her on the cover of a magazine or something he wouldn't think twice about it.

[theXfactor]

She makes a comment about wearing armor. It's her body armor that protects her.

Sure, but there's no way that would protect her from radiation and even if it did, most of her face isn't covered. A normal person wouldn't get out alive.

[ticklefist]

You guys should be nice to (Gerry) Conway. He did create Power Girl after all.

[CyberCoyote]

People keep asking how Huntress protected herself. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who caught this reference. Levitz is doing his best work in years here. I'm actually more than a little shocked how much more I'm enjoying his writing here than on Legion Of Super-Heroes. I was expecting his LSH to be much better, but 2 issues in and Worlds' Finest is easily Levitz's best work right now, by far.

I enjoyed his Huntress mini.. although it was stretched out a bit (the amazingly gorgeous artwork made up for that). His Legion PRE-New 52 was beyond incredible, but Legion since has lost my interest. This story, however, I'm liking just fine. It's not as amazing and awe inspiring as Earth 2 but it's solid and FUN. And if he can keep that roller coaster ride fun feel rolling then he can keep taking my money.

[Conway]

Karen's last 5 years can easily be explained in future issues, but sexy billionaire with Boom Tube technologies is not exactly "keeping a low profile". There must have been some interaction with heroes and villains other than Mr. Terrific. And there have been several indicators in the last 5 years that the heroes of Earth Prime can be trusted. Starting with Batman's self sacrifice to defeat Darkseid.

Then a light bulb went on about Helena. If they came after Darkseid then Bruce was dead and Dick was Batman. Bruce not knowing makes a little more sense. There are still issues, like Damian and Tim (legal heir) were watching the company finances like hawks at that point. It was how they caught Hush. It will make it easier to explain though. Her faked death and Bruce not finding out about her in everything that went down before that still looks a little bad. But now the inability to figure out she wasn't Helena B is on Dick.

[JSA]

I enjoyed his Huntress mini.. although it was stretched out a bit (the amazingly gorgeous artwork made up for that). His Legion PRE-New 52 was beyond incredible, but Legion since has lost my interest. This story, however, I'm liking just fine. It's not as amazing and awe inspiring as Earth 2 but it's solid and FUN. And if he can keep that roller coaster ride fun feel rolling then he can keep taking my money.

WF is a fail. not fun at all.
where is Power Girl? the busty, hot head, in-your-face from real Earth 2, not this fake supergirl
like Conway says, there are too many plot holes.
lazy comic books writers , almost all sucks, nothing happen