Things you miss about the X-men

[jade_nova]

Genosha. A place where mutants can be themselves.

[Slant]

What am I supposed to point out? Because at this point I really do not understand what you're trying to say. I've pointed out 4 books. It seems enough to me.

You've pointed out one book and gave a few spotty examples from others. One from a scene half a year ago that may have lasted a couple pages (Legacy), and another from a book that just got a new writer and hasn't had a chance to establish anything yet. (Astonishing)

And again, most people seem to be discussing it in a general tone shift in the books that carry the franchise. And on a consistent basis. Is that really not clear?

[Meehl]

When someone says "I miss the old X-men" they really mean "I wish I still felt the same about the X-men like I did when I first starting reading the X-men 10 (or 20, or 30, or 40) years ago." Their loss of interest has nothing to do with the books, the characters focused on in a given decade, the villains, or anything tangible. The X-books aren't your children. You aren't going to stay attached to them forever.

Some of you foolishly expect your sentimental attachment to the X-books to last indefinitely, and desperately attempt to blame the loss of sentimental value on something concrete. "If only Nightcrawler was on the team, I'd still feel like I used to." blah blah blah. It's not Nightcrawler. The problem is you.

The X-books have always been dynamic. The point you jumped onto the franchise (ANAD era? Morrison era? Jim Lee and the Saturday Morning Cartoon era? Movie?) and fell in love was the last cohort's undesired and hated change. It still hooked you, didn't it? You don't mind that the previous fans immediately started complaining like you're doing now.

The X-men have always been dynamic. The team has always changed. The style and theme have always changed. This is because the X-men always reflect the view point of the writers and readers of the current generation. Suck it up, stop whining, and enjoy the ride. If you don't want to embrace the new, just reread the same back issues over and over again.

The only thing that can ruin the X-men is the stagnation that you seem to demand.

[RolandJP]

When someone says "I miss the old X-men" they really mean "I wish I still felt the same about the X-men like I did when I first starting reading the X-men 10 (or 20, or 30, or 40) years ago." Their loss of interest has nothing to do with the books, the characters focused on in a given decade, the villains, or anything tangible. The X-books aren't your children. You aren't going to stay attached to them forever.

Some of you foolishly expect your sentimental attachment to the X-books to last indefinitely, and desperately attempt to blame the loss of sentimental value on something concrete. "If only Nightcrawler was on the team, I'd still feel like I used to." blah blah blah. It's not Nightcrawler. The problem is you.

The X-books have always been dynamic. The point you jumped onto the franchise (ANAD era? Morrison era? Jim Lee and the Saturday Morning Cartoon era? Movie?) and fell in love was the last cohort's undesired and hated change. It still hooked you, didn't it? You don't mind that the previous fans immediately started complaining like you're doing now.

The X-men have always been dynamic. The team has always changed. The style and theme have always changed. This is because the X-men always reflect the view point of the writers and readers of the current generation. Suck it up, stop whining, and enjoy the ride. If you don't want to embrace the new, just reread the same back issues over and over again.

The only thing that can ruin the X-men is the stagnation that you seem to demand.

Disagree.

How is it wanting something to remain consistent...stagnation.

IS not Wolverine the best there is at what he does and what he does inst very nice??

Lets say..some new writer takes Wolverine and makes him a Pacifist..tree hugger...and some readers wanted him to return to his warrior roots..would that be stagnation to you?

Probably.

Dont throw the baby out with the Bathwater. The X-men were more of a FAMILY than a SUPER HERO team or SYMBOL. Thats what I want a return to.
And Im sick of More villains being on teams than heroes. X-books read more like HELLFIRE CLUB lovefests than X-men comics.

We are only making changes for the survival of the mutant race.

UTTER BALONEY.


Mutants have always been on the edge of extinction. And Claremont, Stan Lee showed they can protect themselves and still have morals.

These eXistential Fascist X-men titles Blow DOnkey chunks!

As long as they present the books and movies like these..they will always under-perform.

As Proof...MARVEL should have one title with Professor X. JEAN. NIGHTCRAWLER. STORM. and 3 new mutants...under Xavier's old style theme and i bet that book would outsell anything out now.

[Sanji]

They're examples, of course they're going to be few! There are scenes like that in all the issues (give or take), I just pointed out the ones that stand out the most. If you want focus on family and relationship, read Astonishing, New Mutants and X-factor, it can't be clearer than that.

And again, most people seem to be discussing it in a general tone shift in the books that carry the franchise. And on a consistent basis. Is that really not clear?

Again, what are these books that carry the franchise and whose tone has shifted? They're not Astonishing, New Mutants, X-factor and Legacy because you said they're not important enough. That leaves Uncanny, X-men and WATXM. Is X-men carrying the franchise? I doubt it. So that really leaves Uncanny and WATXM. One of them is about a school, you can't get more classical than that; the other, we all agree on, is about something different than what it used to be. This new tone that people don't like belongs to one important book (Uncanny) and one less important (X-men). That's 2 books out of 7 with one not important.

Like I said, people are complaining about the whole franchise when they're really only complaining about Uncanny. There are 6 other books, soon to be 7, for people who don't like it.

[RolandJP]

They're examples, of course they're going to be few! There are scenes like that in all the issues (give or take), I just pointed out the ones that stand out the most. If you want focus on family and relationship, read Astonishing, New Mutants and X-factor, it can't be clearer than that.

Again, what are these books that carry the franchise and whose tone has shifted? They're not Astonishing, New Mutants, X-factor and Legacy because you said they're not important enough. That leaves Uncanny, X-men and WATXM. Is X-men carrying the franchise? I doubt it. So that really leaves Uncanny and WATXM. One of them is about a school, you can't get more classical than that; the other, we all agree on, is about something different than what it used to be. This new tone that people don't like belongs to one important book (Uncanny) and one less important (X-men). That's 2 books out of 7 with one not important.

Like I said, people are complaining about the whole franchise when they're really only complaining about Uncanny. There are 6 other books, soon to be 7, for people who don't like it.

Only reason people buy them is because they feel like they have to buy each to fufil a total story arc..the moment they realize the books arent really linked thematically they will drop them.

[Slant]

They're examples, of course they're going to be few! There are scenes like that in all the issues (give or take), I just pointed out the ones that stand out the most. If you want focus on family and relationship, read Astonishing, New Mutants and X-factor, it can't be clearer than that.

Once again, that isn't what I'm talking about. I don't even necessarily agree with the complaints, but I know what they mean. And the don't mean X-Factor or New Mutants. Astonishing hasn't even finished its first arc. And the other books are arguable as far as what they focus on. Pointing out one very small example in Legacy doesn't mean it counts.

There's been a blatantly obvious tone shift in the entire theme of the books since about M-Day and some like it, and some don't. THATS the focus of what that complaint is. Holy crap.

[Sanji]

There's been a blatantly obvious tone shift in the entire theme of the books since about M-Day and some like it, and some don't.

Agreed. And the Schism happened, and now all Gold side books have nothing to do with mutant survival, para-militar organization, Utopia and co. They went back to school+superheroing. So why the hell are people still complaining about that? If you like the post M-day tone, read Blue, if you don't, read Gold. It's why we have two sides!

[Meehl]

Disagree.
How is it wanting something to remain consistent...stagnation.
IS not Wolverine the best there is at what he does and what he does inst very nice??
Lets say..some new writer takes Wolverine and makes him a Pacifist..tree hugger...and some readers wanted him to return to his warrior roots..would that be stagnation to you?
Probably.

Apparently, you know so little about Wolverine's history that you're arguing my point for me. First, original Wolverine was altered greatly to be more compelling. He changed through a process of trying out different looks and attitudes and eventually, over time and many stories, they found something that really attracted readers. This was only achieved by change. Second, Wolverine has been made into a Pacifist. Every 10 years or so some writers decides to make him renounce fighting. It carries on for an arc or two. There was a few years in the 90s when he was regressed to an animal without his metal skeleton or language. He's lost his healing power a half dozen times. They marry him off. He's always changing. Otherwise, he wouldn't be interesting.

Dont throw the baby out with the Bathwater. The X-men were more of a FAMILY than a SUPER HERO team or SYMBOL. Thats what I want a return to. And Im sick of More villains being on teams than heroes. X-books read more like HELLFIRE CLUB lovefests than X-men comics.We are only making changes for the survival of the mutant race.UTTER BALONEY.

This is not arguing against my point. First, families have bad guys, too. I'm not sure why you equate bad guys with not being a family. Second, the X-men have often explored the Super Hero symbol notion. Morrison had the X-men represent regional response teams. In early X-Factor, the O5 were a public mutant symbol, etc.etc. The X-men writers have explored the family aspect, as well as the school aspect. They've explored the aspect of being nomads on the run without a home. On top of all that , the X-men flip from world villain to world celebrity every decade or so. The important message here is that you're wrong and fail to understand how ALL the themes of the X-men (family, symbol, school) oscillate in the books, and have since the beginning.

Mutants have always been on the edge of extinction. And Claremont, Stan Lee showed they can protect themselves and still have morals. These eXistential Fascist X-men titles Blow DOnkey chunks! As long as they present the books and movies like these..they will always under-perform. As Proof...MARVEL should have one title with Professor X. JEAN. NIGHTCRAWLER. STORM. and 3 new mutants...under Xavier's old style theme and i bet that book would outsell anything out now.

Haha. No. Sales are dropping because people have too many better, more gratifying sources of entertainment. The team you present is 100% nostalgia. The only people who want to read a silver-aged comics mentality book read the Avengers, where sales are even worse.

[MartinRedmond]

Please, we've had better entertainment since the mid 70s and even way before that. Aahahahaha That's not an excuse and videogames have peaked a long time ago, now it's all the same old same old Quake /Cops and Robbers iteration #289898989898 and going. Other forms of entertainment aren't competing with comics.

[Meehl]

Please, we've had better entertainment since the mid 70s and even way before that. Aahahahaha That's not an excuse and videogames have peaked a long time ago, now it's all the same old same old Quake /Cops and Robbers iteration #289898989898 and going. Other forms of entertainment aren't competing with comics.

What? It's only been the last 10 years or so that every home got the internet, and less that every got high speed internet. Porn is competing with comics every second.

[RolandJP]

Apparently, you know so little about Wolverine's history that you're arguing my point for me. First, original Wolverine was altered greatly to be more compelling. He changed through a process of trying out different looks and attitudes and eventually, over time and many stories, they found something that really attracted readers. This was only achieved by change. Second, Wolverine has been made into a Pacifist. Every 10 years or so some writers decides to make him renounce fighting. It carries on for an arc or two. There was a few years in the 90s when he was regressed to an animal without his metal skeleton or language. He's lost his healing power a half dozen times. They marry him off. He's always changing. Otherwise, he wouldn't be interesting.



This is not arguing against my point. First, families have bad guys, too. I'm not sure why you equate bad guys with not being a family. Second, the X-men have often explored the Super Hero symbol notion. Morrison had the X-men represent regional response teams. In early X-Factor, the O5 were a public mutant symbol, etc.etc. The X-men writers have explored the family aspect, as well as the school aspect. They've explored the aspect of being nomads on the run without a home. On top of all that , the X-men flip from world villain to world celebrity every decade or so. The important message here is that you're wrong and fail to understand how ALL the themes of the X-men (family, symbol, school) oscillate in the books, and have since the beginning.



Haha. No. Sales are dropping because people have too many better, more gratifying sources of entertainment. The team you present is 100% nostalgia. The only people who want to read a silver-aged comics mentality book read the Avengers, where sales are even worse.

Okay. But theres nothing like watching something you used to enjoy go down the tubes..

Its a shame..I got money they could have.

[Aguja]

What? It's only been the last 10 years or so that every home got the internet, and less that every got high speed internet. Porn is competing with comics every second.

Comics are in trouble then. Porn is too good. Especially now that they are using comics as inspiration.

[krisis]

I just caught up on the past few arcs of X-Factor and - wow - people weren't kidding above when they were saying many of the things everyone (me included) misses about X-Men are still happening in that title. They could just as easily call it "X-Men Classic" for how well the tone fits with old-school Uncanny.

[Emerald_616]

^YES! There's a reason why X-Factor continues on and on and on...


OT: Whoo! Post #300 in the thread.