Gail Simone needs to get back to writing Wonder Woman pronto

[SteveGus]

Hephaestus' workers seem worthless as allies.

I don't know about that; they are, at least, Hephaestus's workers. They probably aren't combat ready, but I gather they are handy with tools and machinery.

[Maximum Impact]

I know from experience it's hard to be combat ready in flip-flops. They call themselves artists and they ran like hell at the first sign of Hades' lava monster and made no attempt to help their master. Also, because you can make a weapon that doesn't mean you'd be proficient at using one.

[SteveGus]

I know from experience it's hard to be combat ready in flip-flops. They call themselves artists and they ran like hell at the first sign of Hades' lava monster and made no attempt to help their master. Also, because you can make a weapon that doesn't mean you'd be proficient at using one.

I know. But any warrior society still needs guys like these.

[Maximum Impact]

I know. But any warrior society still needs guys like these.

I'd rather the Amazons be self sufficient and make their own weapons.

[Maximum Impact]

Another thing that bothers me about this is Hephaestus made weapons were once special. The sword in Kingdom Come came from him, as well as the lasso. Now that he's outsourcing work his output is too plentiful. You could assume every weapon on Themyscira came from his forge. His stuff is too commonplace.

[fanboiii]

Another thing that bothers me about this is Hephaestus made weapons were once special. The sword in Kingdom Come came from him, as well as the lasso. Now that he's outsourcing work his output is too plentiful. You could assume every weapon on Themyscira came from his forge. His stuff is too commonplace.

Commonplace... only in Themyscira. That makes the Amazon's special which is what some readers want. In traditional myths, Hephaestus made all sorts of things. They weren't all imbued with great power. And, his forge didn't look like a mass production factory.

How could the Amazons make their own weapons given their resources on the island? Why would they make their own weapons when they could have incomparable quality by the smith god? They are still self-sufficient because they have a deal with Hephaestus. He's not giving them weapons as free gifts.

[Outside_85]

Another thing that bothers me about this is Hephaestus made weapons were once special. The sword in Kingdom Come came from him, as well as the lasso. Now that he's outsourcing work his output is too plentiful. You could assume every weapon on Themyscira came from his forge. His stuff is too commonplace.

While it is called Paradise Island, we don't really know if they have mines that can provide ore and such for the production of weapons and armor, not to mention all the other things you would need the metal for.

[Maximum Impact]

Commonplace... only in Themyscira. That makes the Amazon's special which is what some readers want. In traditional myths, Hephaestus made all sorts of things. They weren't all imbued with great power. And, his forge didn't look like a mass production factory.

How could the Amazons make their own weapons given their resources on the island? Why would they make their own weapons when they could have incomparable quality by the smith god? They are still self-sufficient because they have a deal with Hephaestus. He's not giving them weapons as free gifts.

The Amazons could make their own weapons the same way that Io did it. While they're certainly less advanced, the island itself looks the same, and they should be able to make shovels to mine the ore beneath it's surface. Lord knows they've got nothing but time on their hands. Hephaestus said he provided them with weapons, does that include armor and Hippolyta's star-spangled metal belt? If it does, that's even worse than I thought. That would mean they're only capable of making rattan and wicker furniture and that they're a society of whittlers and basket weavers. You may be right though because they can't even make glass, they drink out of wooden cups.

"Oh how the mighty have fallen."

[americanwonder]

... That would mean they're only capable of making rattan and wicker furniture and that they're a society of whittlers and basket weavers...

"Oh how the mighty have fallen."

This is sad, but the way you worded it, I just couldn't help but laugh. *le sigh*

eta:
I also agree that if they are going to have Heph-made weapons, then those weapons should feel special and impressive. Which we haven't seen. They feel like any ol' generic bargain bin weapon because they've done nothing impressive with them.

... They are still self-sufficient because they have a deal with Hephaestus...

Deal or no deal, trading for weapons is not self-sufficient - it's reliant on someone else.

[brettc1]

This is sad, but the way you worded it, I just couldn't help but laugh. *le sigh*

eta:
I also agree that if they are going to have Heph-made weapons, then those weapons should feel special and impressive. Which we haven't seen. They feel like any ol' generic bargain bin weapon because they've done nothing impressive with them.



Deal or no deal, trading for weapons is not self-sufficient - it's reliant on someone else.

Maybe now when they organize their sex-pirate raids they factor in the 50% boy output to meet the wangle more stuff out of Hephaestus. The Queen's speech might go something like this...

"Okay ladies, we didn't do so well last time because we just didnt have enough boys to trade. This time we are going to have to increase our male production. Okay, yes, I know, nobody LIKES the idea of one of those things falling out of her, especially considering what we have to do with those sweaty apes to get pregnant in the first place. But this is business."

So Orina, make sure you find us a big ship this time. None of those clunky little fishing trawlers. NO Aleka we are not going after a battle ship again! You know we can only do that when the savages are killing each other. And once we get on there I want to see every woman doing her bit. Yes they look stupid and smell worse but just close your eyes and think of how much stupier they look when we start sticking OUR spears in THEM! HAHAHAHA!"

Which reminds me - Aleka, just he one trophy this time. All those floppy bits of meat last time stank up the island for days."

[RandomFalls]

Maybe now when they organize their sex-pirate raids they factor in the 50% boy output to meet the wangle more stuff out of Hephaestus. The Queen's speech might go something like this...

"Okay ladies, we didn't do so well last time because we just didnt have enough boys to trade. This time we are going to have to increase our male production. Okay, yes, I know, nobody LIKES the idea of one of those things falling out of her, especially considering what we have to do with those sweaty apes to get pregnant in the first place. But this is business."

So Orina, make sure you find us a big ship this time. None of those clunky little fishing trawlers. NO Aleka we are not going after a battle ship again! You know we can only do that when the savages are killing each other. And once we get on there I want to see every woman doing her bit. Yes they look stupid and smell worse but just close your eyes and think of how much stupier they look when we start sticking OUR spears in THEM! HAHAHAHA!"

Which reminds me - Aleka, just he one trophy this time. All those floppy bits of meat last time stank up the island for days."

And then the whole plan goes to pot when they wind up on a gay cruise ship.

[fanboiii]

Deal or no deal, trading for weapons is not self-sufficient - it's reliant on someone else.

Not true, and makes no sense. I guess you don't understand business.

[americanwonder]

Not true, and makes no sense. I guess you don't understand business.

lol - guess I'm have to return my MBA 'cause of your hollow lil' claim here. I particularly like how you don't even attempt to back it up.

Please feel free to educate me with your grand understanding of business and what your definition of self-sufficient means.

For me, I tend to think along these lines:
Definition of SELF-SUFFICIENT
1: able to maintain oneself or itself without outside aid : capable of providing for one's own needs <a self–sufficient farm>
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...elf-sufficient

If the Amazon's are trading for weapons - weapons they aren't making on their own - then they aren't providing for their own needs without outside aid. Thus, not self-sufficient.

Now, I'm all for trade, in general - makes for more efficient economies, creates more wealth, etc. I even like the interconnectedness it creates. But it isn't self-sufficient.

[fanboiii]

lol - guess I'm have to return my MBA 'cause of your hollow lil' claim here. I particularly like how you don't even attempt to back it up.

Maybe you should. You didn't originally back up your claim either. You just declared that trading is not self-sufficient and now you're using a broad dictionary definition that doesn't really refute your claim. Using the dictionary's example, does a self-sufficient farm make everything it needs to operate?

Trading doesn't automatically equal dependence. A self-sufficient organization can trade their surpluses. Does trading then make them any less self-sufficient? No. It's their profit.

[americanwonder]

... You just declared that trading is not self-sufficient and now you're using a broad dictionary definition that doesn't really refute your claim. Using the dictionary's example, does a self-sufficient farm make everything it needs to operate?

Why would I want to post a definition that "refute's" my claim?

As for the farm: if it needs to trade for things in order to operate, then it is not self-sufficient. It's likely more efficient to do so (as such, I'm all in favor) - every farmer building their own tractor is not efficient. But, to be self-sufficient, it wouldn't need to trade for items in order to operate.

Trading doesn't automatically equal dependence. A self-sufficient organization can trade their surpluses. Does trading then make them any less self-sufficient? No. It's their profit.

Kudos for an interesting set-up. First, I agree that trading doesn't automatically equal dependence. For instance, the U.S. trading surplus wheat to Japan for PS3's (a luxury) doesn't make us dependent on Japan as we can operate without PS3's (though I would be sad). On the other hand, the U.S. sending Fords to Saudi Arabia for oil? That makes us less self-sufficient, in terms of meeting our own energy demands.

I suppose we can classify Heph-weapons as luxury goods as we don't see the Amazons using them for anything useful. But I tend to see Heph-weapons as defense items and something the Amazons can't supply for themselves (give Heph some credit here). So no, I don't think they're entirely self-sufficient as they aren't making everything they need to operate themselves. Here, the Amazons are like Taiwan - they trade for defense items from the U.S. (much to China's frustration), but they aren't making all their own defense items and thus, are not self-sufficient.

Not saying that's necessarily a bad thing - as I said above, I like the many positive connections and ties that trading can create. Some lack of self-sufficiency, even a little mutual dependance, can be a good thing.

eta: There's also another big reason the Amazons are not self-sufficient in this set-up: they can't get preggers, thus can't have baby boys to trade, on their own. They have to go outside of their society for assistance (and apparently choose a very poor way of doing so).