Cloud (FF7 movie) vs Cass Cain

[Sol M]

I'm sold on that as well. Cass puts up a fight in the hand to hand portion, but Cloud's durability and strength, coupled with his own bullet-time speed, are just too much to deal with.

The way he casually makes Reno look like a dope - unarmed - when Reno is a guy who runs up buildings and kicks people 20' through the air, sort of seals the deal for me that even unarmed, he's fast and good enough to weather the Cass-assault and finally land a solid hit.

He's also fast enough to hang with and deal with simultaneous attacks from Kadaj's gang, at least one of whom was a bullet-timer, and another had a flash step style movement technique he could use to outright blitz people from a sizeable distance.

With a sword?

It takes a pretty special kind of fighter to flick bullets out of the air using a 6' long, 1' wide sword...one-handed...while driving a motorcycle.

Also, he cuts 10' long sections of buildings in half.

Yep. And that's not even getting into Limit breaks, given that he was flooring Bahamut with just one of those.

With a sword, he's not really street level any more, if he ever was.

[Sharpandpointies]

He's also fast enough to hang with and deal with simultaneous attacks from Kadaj's gang, at least one of whom was a bullet-timer, and another had a flash step style movement technique he could use to outright blitz people from a sizeable distance.

I'm more talking about unarmed capability. :) His 'I deal with you two simultaneously, including the dude who speedblitzed Tifa' thing was done with weapons.

Unarmed, he stood there and watched as Reno charged him, then slipped his strike and hoofed him out the door. Easily. No using the sword for defense, nothing.

The point being that unarmed, he doesn't suddenly turn into a completely unskilled spaz. :)

Yep. And that's not even getting into Limit breaks, given that he was flooring Bahamut with just one of those.

With a sword, he's not really street level any more, if he ever was.

He doesn't really need a limit break to kill Cass. Somewhere on this board is an AC-Cloud versus Spiderman thread, where I'm happily arguing on the side of Cloud. Peter gives him a fight, but I figure Cloud eventually tears him apart.

[Sol M]

I'm more talking about unarmed capability. :) His 'I deal with you two simultaneously, including the dude who speedblitzed Tifa' thing was done with weapons.

Unarmed, he stood there and watched as Reno charged him, then slipped his strike and hoofed him out the door. Easily. No using the sword for defense, nothing.

The point being that unarmed, he doesn't suddenly turn into a completely unskilled spaz. :)

Weeeell, if we're talking about his unarmed skill, Reno isn't exactly all that skilled. That was a pretty clumsy effort at an attack, frankly.

But yes, Reno was definitely well above real world humans, stat-wise, so that might count for something.

He doesn't really need a limit break to kill Cass.

Probably not, given that he was cutting through solid stone with normal sword strikes. O_O

Somewhere on this board is an AC-Cloud versus Spiderman thread, where I'm happily arguing on the side of Cloud. Peter gives him a fight, but I figure Cloud eventually tears him apart.

Agreed. Spiderman would be a closer match for the guy if he's using a sword.

[Sharpandpointies]

Weeeell, if we're talking about his unarmed skill, Reno isn't exactly all that skilled. That was a pretty clumsy effort at an attack, frankly.

But yes, Reno was definitely well above real world humans, stat-wise, so that might count for something.

Reno, when he's trying, is capable of giving a fight to Kadaj's goons, just like Rude. Landing hits, dodging their strikes, kicking them through the air, etc. He can't BEAT them, but he can give them a fight.

Granted, it was a bit of a 'charge screaming!' attack, but it was by surprise and Reno is quick and strong enough to literally crawl up the side of a building as fast as most people can run. ^_^ Hilarious as that scene is.

Anyway, the point is that Cloud doesn't just fall apart the moment he doesn't have a sword in his hand. He's still capable. How capable is open to conjecture, but given his speed, strength, and durability, I figure this one is a hugely uphill struggle for Cass.

[Sol M]

Reno, when he's trying, is capable of giving a fight to Kadaj's goons, just like Rude. Landing hits, dodging their strikes, kicking them through the air, etc. He can't BEAT them, but he can give them a fight.

I dunno, he only got like one good hit on them. All the dodging and kicking through the air was done by Kadaj's group. Could be misremembering of course.

Granted, it was a bit of a 'charge screaming!' attack, but it was by surprise and Reno is quick and strong enough to literally crawl up the side of a building as fast as most people can run. ^_^ Hilarious as that scene is.

Oh, yeah. A pissed off Reno definitely does a couple of crazy stuff in that movie. His physical stats are definitely insane, no doubt about that.

Not that it matters much, since it still basically shows that Cloud can react quickly even without the sword.

Anyway, the point is that Cloud doesn't just fall apart the moment he doesn't have a sword in his hand. He's still capable. How capable is open to conjecture, but given his speed, strength, and durability, I figure this one is a hugely uphill struggle for Cass.

Absolutely. :)

[Sharpandpointies]

I dunno, he only got like one good hit on them. All the dodging and kicking through the air was done by Kadaj's group. Could be misremembering of course.

I think I need to go back and watch again.

[The Transient Guest]

Well, unless your opponent is massively superior but feels like being a dick.

Granted, not real, but a lot closer to it than Advent Children.

THAT'S PETYR MOTHER-COCKADOODLING-BAELISH!

...How did I not remember that.

Umm...sorry...Game of Thrones fan.....I'll leave now >.<

[abmccray]

THAT'S PETYR MOTHER-COCKADOODLING-BAELISH!

Sorry, Tommy Carcetti (The Wire) will always override Littlefinger (Got) when it comes to Aiden.

[JCAll]

Reno, when he's trying, is capable of giving a fight to Kadaj's goons, just like Rude. Landing hits, dodging their strikes, kicking them through the air, etc. He can't BEAT them, but he can give them a fight.

Granted, it was a bit of a 'charge screaming!' attack, but it was by surprise and Reno is quick and strong enough to literally crawl up the side of a building as fast as most people can run. ^_^ Hilarious as that scene is.

Anyway, the point is that Cloud doesn't just fall apart the moment he doesn't have a sword in his hand. He's still capable. How capable is open to conjecture, but given his speed, strength, and durability, I figure this one is a hugely uphill struggle for Cass.

Not to mention that Reno jumped off a, what, 20 story pillar, broke every bone in his body, and still got out of Sector 7 before the plate came down. And he has that bullshit pyramid move that I don't think he even really tried on the seph clones.

[Kuro]

I'm so sad that Elena didn't do anything in the AC movie. She was my favourite Turk and yet you see her for a split second. Damn you, Square!

[The Drunkard Kid]

I'm so sad that Elena didn't do anything in the AC movie. She was my favourite Turk and yet you see her for a split second. Damn you, Square!

I'm still kinda annoyed that Cloud didn't immediately shank Reno and Rufus for the whole Section 7 thing, and I actually liked both of those characters in AC.

[JCAll]

I'm still kinda annoyed that Cloud didn't immediately shank Reno and Rufus for the whole Section 7 thing, and I actually liked both of those characters in AC.

Note they were never in the same room with Barret.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Note they were never in the same room with Barret.

Yeah, Reno wasn't running away from Bahamut. He just saw a giant dragon start blowing crap up and knew Barret was on his way.

[BitVyper]

I don't really see any evidence that the limit break aura would have protected Cloud anymore than his normal durability. Nothing shown in the game or the movie suggests that being at limit break provides additional defenses. In terms of visuals, we see Cloud struggling through Bahamut's uber blast, not Cloud-in-a-magical-shield-bubble. There's no visual to suggest that he's somehow blocking Bahamut's power with the aura, nothing like dueling energy beams or whatever. In fact, didn't Sephiroth stop Cloud mid-limit break in the extended edition? It makes more sense as a purely offensive build up of power (which is what we know is happening), and we see him vent all that power in climhazard. Tanking Bahamut's blast with some difficulty is also fairly consistent with his other durability feats in the movie. That said; if Cloud can manifest a defensive forcefield more or less at will, it's not exactly going to help Cassandra's odds.

So there's nothing to suggest that the aura was protecting him, and at least some evidence to the contrary.

[The Drunkard Kid]

That was the only time he had manifested an energy shield in the entire movie AFAIR, and earlier he had blood drawn from being shot in the face; while Bahamut SHIN's super large energy blast was of unknown power, it was way larger than the one that blew up an entire fountain-sized statue, which in turn was miles stronger than Yazoo's regular gunfire, and still probably way beyond the materia-enhanced blast that Yazoo and Loz(?) nearly killed him with at the end of the movie. Though I guess that since it didn't get a chance to explode, the fireball might have been relatively mild -- its remnants didn't do any damage at all as it faded away after Cloud killed Bahamut SHIN, and I think it had even hit buildings while it was fading.

Still, I doubt that Cassie would have done anywhere near as well if she took a bullet to the face, so its not really that big a deal for this fight.