Why Can't The Amazons Have Technology?

[Maximum Impact]

It was silly and fun, and comics are srs bzns.

While that's true, I think the main reason almost everyone on this thread is anti-tech is because it's not a part of Azzarello's vision. If his Amazons come back from their enchantment with previously unseen surface to air missiles opinions would change on a dime.

[JimRaynor55]

I used to prefer the ancient Greek, completely "low tech" portrayal. But after going through a bunch of Pre-Crisis comics, I've warmed up a lot to the idea of the Amazons having some advanced tech. I think they lose something when they're portrayed as not having advanced technologically in over three thousand years.

The Amazons are supposed to be a symbol of female achievement, as well as potential leaders in the advancement of all human civilization. It's harder to argue that when they're a small city living in technologically primitive conditions. Basically, the only thing that would make them "relevant" to the rest of the world would be Wonder Woman herself. Other nations would have little reason to look to the Amazons as a guide, and take them seriously as a player on the international stage. That's one of the criticisms that I seen from WW detractors, which wouldn't apply at all to the Pre-Crisis version. It's not a perfect criticism because I do think that the Amazons offer a lot morally and culturally, something that I saw even in the Perez issues. But it helps if the Amazons have the tech to back it up.

I think what most people are uncomfortable with is losing the mythological, ancient Greek aesthetic. Armored, sword wielding Amazons just look cool. I think these things need to be carefully balanced. Real life technological advancement is affected by numerous factors, such as available resources, needs, and interaction (or competition) with other groups. The Amazons all live on a small, secluded group of islands. Resources would be tight. Population growth is zero, so there's no need for large scale manufacturing and construction. Besides guarding Doom's Doorway, there isn't any real war, so the Amazons wouldn't have a need to develop many weapons. Everyone is also immortal, with no new generations with new styles and wants to drive change. So there are plenty of reasons why a smart and scientifically capable Amazon civilization wouldn't go nuts developing all sorts of modern or scifi tech, leaving behind all the architecture, aesthetics, and styles of ancient Greece. I can totally understand why they'd still fight with spears and swords, and wouldn't be using computers or running around with iPhones. Realistically, secluded civilizations should not develop a lot of technology. But with that in mind, the Amazons shouldn't be totally realistic either, since these are comics and they're supposed to be an accomplished, inspirational society.

The idea that I had is that a small group of scientifically minded Amazon scientists are responsible for their tech. The Pre-Crisis comics had "Science Island," after all. Scientific advancement in any society is the product of an exceptional few. With so few scientists, faced with limited demands from their society, Amazon tech would advance on a very different path than the rest of the world's technology. There would be gaps in what they've developed, and they wouldn't have everything that Man's Word has created. But the Amazons should have their own unique inventions. I think that symbolically, it can show that everybody has something to offer, and be a testament to the Amazons' intelligence and ingenuity.

The stylistic clash of "Science Island" (or whatever they want to call a hypothetical modern equivalent) can be softened by leaning into and acknowledging the weirdness. Make it fun, silly, and wacky. Make the head of it a bit of an Amazon "mad scientist" or clumsy Q figure, completely absorbed in her crazy work. Also, the common modern trope of "It's only magic until you figure out how it works" could be used to great effect. Perhaps some of the Amazons' unique tech can be based on some "magical" gifts from the gods. Gifts like shiny rocks that seemed completely useless, before centuries of Amazon research and peripheral technological advancement found a way to make use of them. That makes use of the ancient Greek theme, and partially explains some of the remarkable accomplishments of Amazon tech. But it wouldn't compromise their independence and intelligence, and it still pushes a positive, pro-science message.

[Wonder39]

Well you wont like Italy much then.



Sales prove you wrong. People didnt find the old WW that interesting.

Italy's beautiful-- but those buildings clearly weren't built during the same time as the Amazons were created.... those look like they were created within the last 400, maybe 500 years? Hardly a fair comparison...

Sales prove that people are buying the book. How does that prove my opinion wrong? My opinion is that catering to the notion that an ancient society has to be portrayed as "300" is expected and boring. To me it is. There's no thought put to it, and no creativity "this was cool-- we'll just do this." Did I say your opinion was wrong?-- nope. I said I was sorry you felt that way. No wrong or right here, cookie ;)

Apart from a few bright moments , the "old" WW unfortunately suffered from constant shifts in direction, cast, and continuity, as well as sub par writing and a lack of anyone (esp the PTB) really caring. It's hard for any reader t jump in and care when the ptb are fadiddling with everything again and again.

While I appreciate the attention WW is now getting, I feel it's at a fairly substantial cost. The funny thing is that in general, I don't mind the writing. I'm not one of those "it's all horrible because it's new!" folks. It's a little too decompressed for me (I thought that was something new 52 was avoiding), there's very little "super heroing", and I feel WW's a secondary character in her own book, I don't feel it's all bad. However I feel he could have very easily told the story without screwing with the origin and the mythos in general. I don't feel it added anything, and it played to the lowest common denominator.

M

[Wonder39]

I used to prefer the ancient Greek, completely "low tech" portrayal. But after going through a bunch of Pre-Crisis comics, I've warmed up a lot to the idea of the Amazons having some advanced tech. I think they lose something when they're portrayed as not having advanced technologically in over three thousand years.

The Amazons are supposed to be a symbol of female achievement, as well as potential leaders in the advancement of all human civilization. It's harder to argue that when they're a small city living in technologically primitive conditions. Basically, the only thing that would make them "relevant" to the rest of the world would be Wonder Woman herself. Other nations would have little reason to look to the Amazons as a guide, and take them seriously as a player on the international stage. That's one of the criticisms that I seen from WW detractors, which wouldn't apply at all to the Pre-Crisis version. It's not a perfect criticism because I do think that the Amazons offer a lot morally and culturally, something that I saw even in the Perez issues. But it helps if the Amazons have the tech to back it up.

I think what most people are uncomfortable with is losing the mythological, ancient Greek aesthetic. Armored, sword wielding Amazons just look cool. I think these things need to be carefully balanced. Real life technological advancement is affected by numerous factors, such as available resources, needs, and interaction (or competition) with other groups. The Amazons all live on a small, secluded group of islands. Resources would be tight. Population growth is zero, so there's no need for large scale manufacturing and construction. Besides guarding Doom's Doorway, there isn't any real war, so the Amazons wouldn't have a need to develop many weapons. Everyone is also immortal, with no new generations with new styles and wants to drive change. So there are plenty of reasons why a smart and scientifically capable Amazon civilization wouldn't go nuts developing all sorts of modern or scifi tech, leaving behind all the architecture, aesthetics, and styles of ancient Greece. I can totally understand why they'd still fight with spears and swords, and wouldn't be using computers or running around with iPhones. Realistically, secluded civilizations should not develop a lot of technology. But with that in mind, the Amazons shouldn't be totally realistic either, since these are comics and they're supposed to be an accomplished, inspirational society.

The idea that I had is that a small group of scientifically minded Amazon scientists are responsible for their tech. The Pre-Crisis comics had "Science Island," after all. Scientific advancement in any society is the product of an exceptional few. With so few scientists, faced with limited demands from their society, Amazon tech would advance on a very different path than the rest of the world's technology. There would be gaps in what they've developed, and they wouldn't have everything that Man's Word has created. But the Amazons should have their own unique inventions. I think that symbolically, it can show that everybody has something to offer, and be a testament to the Amazons' intelligence and ingenuity.

The stylistic clash of "Science Island" (or whatever they want to call a hypothetical modern equivalent) can be softened by leaning into and acknowledging the weirdness. Make it fun, silly, and wacky. Make the head of it a bit of an Amazon "mad scientist" or clumsy Q figure, completely absorbed in her crazy work. Also, the common modern trope of "It's only magic until you figure out how it works" could be used to great effect. Perhaps some of the Amazons' unique tech can be based on some "magical" gifts from the gods. Gifts like shiny rocks that seemed completely useless, before centuries of Amazon research and peripheral technological advancement found a way to make use of them. That makes use of the ancient Greek theme, and partially explains some of the remarkable accomplishments of Amazon tech. But it wouldn't compromise their independence and intelligence, and it still pushes a positive, pro-science message.

Yes. Exactly.

M

[Dr. Hurt]

Italy's beautiful-- but those buildings clearly weren't built during the same time as the Amazons were created.... those look like they were created within the last 400, maybe 500 years? Hardly a fair comparison...

I'm just saying that Azzarello's Themiscyra looks like Italy.

It doesnt matter when the buildings were built. I'm just saying that Themiscyra isnt a crappy place just because it's not full of marble columns any more.

While that's true, I think the main reason almost everyone on this thread is anti-tech is because it's not a part of Azzarello's vision. If his Amazons come back from their enchantment with previously unseen surface to air missiles opinions would change on a dime.

Maybe if he could sell the tech better than his predecessors. If he did the same things, like... ancient greek society with a couple of technological things sprinkled on top, then i wouldnt like it.

[Dr. Hurt]

I used to prefer the ancient Greek, completely "low tech" portrayal. But after going through a bunch of Pre-Crisis comics, I've warmed up a lot to the idea of the Amazons having some advanced tech. I think they lose something when they're portrayed as not having advanced technologically in over three thousand years.

The Amazons are supposed to be a symbol of female achievement, as well as potential leaders in the advancement of all human civilization. It's harder to argue that when they're a small city living in technologically primitive conditions. Basically, the only thing that would make them "relevant" to the rest of the world would be Wonder Woman herself. Other nations would have little reason to look to the Amazons as a guide, and take them seriously as a player on the international stage. That's one of the criticisms that I seen from WW detractors, which wouldn't apply at all to the Pre-Crisis version. It's not a perfect criticism because I do think that the Amazons offer a lot morally and culturally, something that I saw even in the Perez issues. But it helps if the Amazons have the tech to back it up.

I think what most people are uncomfortable with is losing the mythological, ancient Greek aesthetic. Armored, sword wielding Amazons just look cool. I think these things need to be carefully balanced. Real life technological advancement is affected by numerous factors, such as available resources, needs, and interaction (or competition) with other groups. The Amazons all live on a small, secluded group of islands. Resources would be tight. Population growth is zero, so there's no need for large scale manufacturing and construction. Besides guarding Doom's Doorway, there isn't any real war, so the Amazons wouldn't have a need to develop many weapons. Everyone is also immortal, with no new generations with new styles and wants to drive change. So there are plenty of reasons why a smart and scientifically capable Amazon civilization wouldn't go nuts developing all sorts of modern or scifi tech, leaving behind all the architecture, aesthetics, and styles of ancient Greece. I can totally understand why they'd still fight with spears and swords, and wouldn't be using computers or running around with iPhones. Realistically, secluded civilizations should not develop a lot of technology. But with that in mind, the Amazons shouldn't be totally realistic either, since these are comics and they're supposed to be an accomplished, inspirational society.

The idea that I had is that a small group of scientifically minded Amazon scientists are responsible for their tech. The Pre-Crisis comics had "Science Island," after all. Scientific advancement in any society is the product of an exceptional few. With so few scientists, faced with limited demands from their society, Amazon tech would advance on a very different path than the rest of the world's technology. There would be gaps in what they've developed, and they wouldn't have everything that Man's Word has created. But the Amazons should have their own unique inventions. I think that symbolically, it can show that everybody has something to offer, and be a testament to the Amazons' intelligence and ingenuity.

Technology just doesnt fit with how the Amazons were shown until now. Civilizations that have technology have more than a couple of arbitrary things. Technology affects their whole world just like i explained in another post where i mentioned how the Jedi might choose to fight with lightsabers, but the lightsabers themselves are high tech, their means of transport are high tech, the jedi academy is high tech, etc.

(jedi temple)



They either have to give them technology properly or none at all. This "lets just throw whatever comes to mind while doing LSD" doesnt work.

The Amazons are supposed to be a symbol of female achievement, as well as potential leaders in the advancement of all human civilization.

That used to be the case when women needed support because the society was heavily sexist. It's like writing the Batgirl book in the 1940ies but making Barbara a Mary Sue, so that people can get the point that women are equal to men, dont need to be saved, and can be just as good in anything. But now, that need for that is gone. Now a Batgirl book just needs to be a good batgirl book.

This was just an example to show you that WW doesnt need to do that anymore. She doesnt need to have that burden. Other female characters can do whatever they want without people worrying about their impact on feminism or whatever. It's like having Batwoman as the champion of gay superheroes. From that point onwards, she's ties to a wall and she cant move. She has a whole society to represent.

I think that's the wrong mentality. It's not as needed anymore, and people dont need to be lectured. Sometimes you can get the point across better by just writing a good character, not a Mary Sue who is used as a poster boy.

The stylistic clash of "Science Island" (or whatever they want to call a hypothetical modern equivalent) can be softened by leaning into and acknowledging the weirdness. Make it fun, silly, and wacky. Make the head of it a bit of an Amazon "mad scientist" or clumsy Q figure, completely absorbed in her crazy work. Also, the common modern trope of "It's only magic until you figure out how it works" could be used to great effect. Perhaps some of the Amazons' unique tech can be based on some "magical" gifts from the gods. Gifts like shiny rocks that seemed completely useless, before centuries of Amazon research and peripheral technological advancement found a way to make use of them. That makes use of the ancient Greek theme, and partially explains some of the remarkable accomplishments of Amazon tech. But it wouldn't compromise their independence and intelligence, and it still pushes a positive, pro-science message.

I find it easier to explain things with examples, so here's another one:

Picture Aquaman before the relaunch. He's kinda lame right? People dont really care for him and they tend to mock him. How do you bring him back into the forefront and captivate the casual fan? You tone down the camp and write some solid stories. It's just how it works.

WW is in the same position as far as the larger audience is concerned. You cant do camp, because they've been doing camp and it never worked. Nobody took her seriously as a kick ass hero. "Oh that chick with the talking gorillas and the colourful outfit?"

Morrison is doing all sorts of crazy stuff with Batman in Incorporated, stuff people would never believe they'd like a few years ago. But he gradually went there, and he's writing Batman, who is successful anyway.

[Dr. Hurt]

Also, i think magic fits this book better. Batman is the noir, street level part of the trinity. Superman is sci-fi. WW is mythology.

I think making the Amazons more mystical, and their armors and weapons magical, they would be on par with the rest of the world, but by different means. And who doesnt like the mystical? Look at all the millions of people playing World of Warcraft right now. It's all about magic, spells, dragons, etc.

I bet that if WW didnt exist and someone gave you the basics (in other words if you werent prejudiced by what came before), you wouldnt think to put science in there. Or if there was science, it would be much better applied than this arbitrary "let's give them an invisible jet out of nowhere".

[JimRaynor55]

Technology just doesnt fit with how the Amazons were shown until now.

Wonder Woman started with advanced technology, and had it for decades. It was the reboots that removed all of that.

Civilizations that have technology have more than a couple of arbitrary things. Technology affects their whole world just like explained in another post where i mentioned how the Jedi might choose to lightsabers, but the lightsabers themselves are high tech, their means of transport are high tech, the jedi academy is high tech, etc.

They either have to give them technology properly or none at all. This "lets just throw whatever comes to mind while doing LSD" doesnt work.

I agree that technology affects a lot of things, and I even went over all the reasons why realistically, a small isolated society would not develop a lot of tech. But this isn't just a problem with WW, it's something that all of comics gets away with. It doesn't make much sense for regular people in the Marvel and DC universes closely approximate real life society, with guys like Tony Stark, Reed Richards, Lex Luthor, etc. running around. Conversely, it doesn't make sense for those guys to be able to create all sorts of crazy scifi tech, when they're working from a tech base that otherwise appears to be normal. Almost every writer for just about every superhero wants the scifi tech, but also wants a relatable setting that doesn't stray far from reality. Otto Octavius can make flexible, robotic arms that respond to his every thought as simple lab aids, yet we don't see hordes of robots everywhere handling menial labor. SHIELD can ridiculously make an aircraft carrier perpetually fly, yet everyone else's means of transportation (including most of he military's) appears to be mundane. The superhero genre in general is very unrealistic, and not even internally consistent. Anyone who works in this genre is basically BSing the science and selectively inserting supertech where ever they want.

Like I said before, just because you can make something doesn't mean that you will, if there's no demand for it. The Amazons are a small, stable, immortal population. So if you want to soften the contrast between their tech and the ancient Greek setting, it's very easy to leave out lots of different technology as something they never saw a need to build.

That used to be the case when women needed support because the society was heavily sexist. It's like writing the Batgirl book in the 1940ies but making Barbara a Mary Sue, so that people can get the point that women are equal to men, dont need to be saved, and can be just as good in anything. But now, that need for that is gone. Now a Batgirl book just needs to be a good batgirl book.

Portraying a society with advanced tech in some areas, while lagging behind in other areas, doesn't make them Mary Sues. Modern society is still sexist (many nations extremely so). Also, until the most recent changes the Amazons were portrayed as a society that should be able to help lead the world. As several people have said, it helps if they're not total primitives when it comes to technology.

Picture Aquaman before the relaunch. He's kinda lame right? People dont really care for him and they tend to mock him. How do you bring him back into the forefront and captivate the casual fan? You tone down the camp and write some solid stories. It's just how it works.

Making the setting more serious and toned down is one way you can do things. It's not the only way. The Dark Knight is an example of a successful, gritty superhero movie, while The Avengers shows that a superhero movie can embrace the colorful costumes and take a lighter approach. One of the most critically acclaimed mainstream comics in the last few years, All-Star Superman, fully embraced the goofy camp and ricidulous scifi elements of the Silver Age. Modern comic book sales are in general lousy, with a best-selling title these days selling at levels that would've gotten the same books cancelled decades ago. Comics themselves have become incredibly niche, selling to a shrinking group of older fans. What the industry ought to do is seek to have all-ages appeal, and make stories fun and friendly for kids again. Kids can accept ridiculous settings just fine.

Also, i think magic fits this book better. Batman is the noir, street level part of the trinity.

Yet Batman has a vertical take-off fighter jet and other high-tech vehicles at his disposal. His partner is a kid who fights crime in a bright red and yellow costume, and somehow doesn't get himself killed. His enemies include a shapeshifting mass of living clay, a woman who can genetically engineer and control plant monsters, a man-bat mutant, and an immortal eco-terrorist with a secret society of ninjas. These are all established parts of his history, even before the Morrison craziness. Superhero comics are a crazy genre that handles a great variety of different things.

[Auguste Dupin]

Also, i think magic fits this book better. Batman is the noir, street level part of the trinity. Superman is sci-fi. WW is mythology.

I think making the Amazons more mystical, and their armors and weapons magical, they would be on par with the rest of the world, but by different means. And who doesnt like the mystical? Look at all the millions of people playing World of Warcraft right now. It's all about magic, spells, dragons, etc.

I bet that if WW didnt exist and someone gave you the basics (in other words if you werent prejudiced by what came before), you wouldnt think to put science in there. Or if there was science, it would be much better applied than this arbitrary "let's give them an invisible jet out of nowhere".

This. And magical girls are huge in Japan.
I think the magic idea is a nice compromise between the "full Greek warriors" Amazons and the "crazy high techs" Amazons. It gives them abilities we could never hope to have, but without having to go into to much details (it has been granted by their Gods, here, explained). I mean, they already have oracles and priestress, let's give them magicians too.
Now, speaking of dragons, how about giving Paradise island fantastic animals? Like, the shores are pretty much civilised, but in the center of the island, you have this forest with Cyclops and Hydras on it, and Amazons sometimes hunt them (like, there's a ritual to prove you have become a real Amazon, and you have to hunt down a Sphinx or, or capture a Pegasus). Let's turn Paradise island into more than on city and shores around it. Let's make it a big place, where adventure could and will happen.

[Auguste Dupin]

Making the setting more serious and toned down is one way you can do things. It's not the only way. The Dark Knight is an example of a successful, gritty superhero movie, while The Avengers shows that a superhero movie can embrace the colorful costumes and take a lighter approach. One of the most critically acclaimed mainstream comics in the last few years, All-Star Superman, fully embraced the goofy camp and ricidulous scifi elements of the Silver Age. Modern comic book sales are in general lousy, with a best-selling title these days selling at levels that would've gotten the same books cancelled decades ago. Comics themselves have become incredibly niche, selling to a shrinking group of older fans. What the industry ought to do is seek to have all-ages appeal, and make stories fun and friendly for kids again. Kids can accept ridiculous settings just fine.

On the other hand, you don't exactly have purple healing rays and magic kangas in Avengers. It's fun, but the universe presented is mostly our own. Even the gods are handwaved "extradimensionnal aliens".

[Dr. Hurt]

Wonder Woman started with advanced technology, and had it for decades. It was the reboots that removed all of that.

I know. I mean that the way they kept focusing on the ancient greek part of the mythos, the technology was very arbitrary. If the Amazons have high tech, then WW's suit needs to be protective like batman's, she should have a palmtop for hacking into computers, lasers, guns, smoke bombs, etc. Or if not her, then the Amazons.

I agree that technology affects a lot of things, and I even went over all the reasons why realistically, a small isolated society would not develop a lot of tech. But this isn't just a problem with WW, it's something that all of comics gets away with. It doesn't make much sense for regular people in the Marvel and DC universes closely approximate real life society, with guys like Tony Stark, Reed Richards, Lex Luthor, etc. running around. Conversely, it doesn't make sense for those guys to be able to create all sorts of crazy scifi tech, when they're working from a tech base that otherwise appears to be normal. Almost every writer for just about every superhero wants the scifi tech, but also wants a relatable setting that doesn't stray far from reality. Otto Octavius can make flexible, robotic arms that respond to his every thought as simple lab aids, yet we don't see hordes of robots everywhere handling menial labor. SHIELD can ridiculously make an aircraft carrier perpetually fly, yet everyone else's means of transportation (including most of he military's) appears to be mundane. The superhero genre in general is very unrealistic, and not even internally consistent. Anyone who works in this genre is basically BSing the science and selectively inserting supertech where ever they want.

I agree with you, the technology doesnt have to be realistic. But it has to be spread out evenly across the world. You cant have the 300 spartans exactly as they are, but with mobile phones. That has always been the problem with WW.

Look at the Asgardians in the Thor movie. They played the "well it's actually tech but to you people it looks like magic" angle and everything reflected that. Asgard itself, their clothes and armors, etc. They still fought with swords and spears, but the world was much more consistent in its technology.

Like I said before, just because you can make something doesn't mean that you will, if there's no demand for it. The Amazons are a small, stable, immortal population. So if you want to soften the contrast between their tech and the ancient Greek setting, it's very easy to leave out lots of different technology as something they never saw a need to build.

Well yeah but if they're open to technology, then one would assume that they would copy everything they lack when they open up to the rest of the world.

Portraying a society with advanced tech in some areas, while lagging behind in other areas, doesn't make them Mary Sues.

That comment of mine was addressed to your point that the Amazons need to be perfect, be an example of female achievement, etc.

Modern society is still sexist (many nations extremely so).

That's true. But in the parts of the world that people read comics, it's an issue that's being addressed. We're aknowledging it and we're striving for it. I dont think that people will be influenced by whether the Amazons are good or bad, or somewhere in between.

Also, until the most recent changes the Amazons were portrayed as a society that should be able to help lead the world. As several people have said, it helps if they're not total primitives when it comes to technology.

It helps but it's not necessary. They just have to be good people.

But i dont think the current Amazons are like that. They're more "grey".

Making the setting more serious and toned down is one way you can do things. It's not the only way. The Dark Knight is an example of a successful, gritty superhero movie, while The Avengers shows that a superhero movie can embrace the colorful costumes and take a lighter approach. One of the most critically acclaimed mainstream comics in the last few years, All-Star Superman, fully embraced the goofy camp and ricidulous scifi elements of the Silver Age. Modern comic book sales are in general lousy, with a best-selling title these days selling at levels that would've gotten the same books cancelled decades ago. Comics themselves have become incredibly niche, selling to a shrinking group of older fans. What the industry ought to do is seek to have all-ages appeal, and make stories fun and friendly for kids again. Kids can accept ridiculous settings just fine.

I'm talking about comics, not movies. The Avengers was successful because it was a big blockbustery sequel to like... 5 successful movies.

Also, i'm talking about comics that are struggling. Superman wasnt when Morrison wrote All-Star. I'm not saying all comics should be like that, but when you want to reestablish a franchise and update it for a modern age, you dont up the camp, you tone it down and get back to the basics.

[Dr. Hurt]

This. And magical girls are huge in Japan.
I think the magic idea is a nice compromise between the "full Greek warriors" Amazons and the "crazy high techs" Amazons. It gives them abilities we could never hope to have, but without having to go into to much details (it has been granted by their Gods, here, explained). I mean, they already have oracles and priestress, let's give them magicians too.
Now, speaking of dragons, how about giving Paradise island fantastic animals? Like, the shores are pretty much civilised, but in the center of the island, you have this forest with Cyclops and Hydras on it, and Amazons sometimes hunt them (like, there's a ritual to prove you have become a real Amazon, and you have to hunt down a Sphinx or, or capture a Pegasus). Let's turn Paradise island into more than on city and shores around it. Let's make it a big place, where adventure could and will happen.

I always wanted P.I. to be huge and not fully explored so that the Amazons can "play around". Diana could have an epic adventure as a teen without leaving the island.

[JimRaynor55]

The Avengers universe has a 100,000 ton flying supercarrier with a cloaking device (that ridiculously launched real-life jet fighters that would be beyond primitive by its own standards, while the Avengers' scifi Quinjet was a mere transport), robotic armor so light that it can be folded up and carried in one hand, a vibranium shield that violates the very laws of physics, and crazy tech going all the way back to World War II. Tony Stark builds an impossible battle suit in an Afghan cave. Vanko builds his own in a run down apartment with no money or resources. It's exactly what I was talking about. A "real life" setting with arbitrary super tech inserted wherever the writers felt like it.

[JimRaynor55]

I know. I mean that the way they kept focusing on the ancient greek part of the mythos, the technology was very arbitrary. If the Amazons have high tech, then WW's suit needs to be protective like batman's, she should have a palmtop for hacking into computers, lasers, guns, smoke bombs, etc. Or if not her, then the Amazons.

That's like saying Superman, a citizen of modern America, needs to have realistic protective armor and all sorts of gear. Wonder Woman is super powered and does things her own way.

I agree with you, the technology doesnt have to be realistic. But it has to be spread out evenly across the world. You cant have the 300 spartans exactly as they are, but with mobile phones. That has always been the problem with WW.

As far as I know, the Amazons have not been carrying mobile phones. That's even one of the things that I pointed out that they should not or don't have to be carrying around.

Look at the Asgardians in the Thor movie. They played the "well it's actually tech but to you people it looks like magic" and everything reflected that. Asgard itself, their clothes and armors, etc. They still fought with swords and spears, but the world was much more consistent in it's technology.

So consistent that the people who made a giant robot and interplanetary teleportation (that could alternately be used as a Death Star-like planet destroyer), ride around on horses and fight with medieval weapons. Meanwhile, WW2 Nazis made better applications of their tech, building actual laser guns. It really wasn't consistent. Why can't the Amazons be portrayed like the Thor movie Asgardians?

Well yeah but if they're open to technology, then one would assume that they would copy everything they lack when they open up to the rest of the world.

They have a small population with an even smaller and probably already overworked group of scientists. They don't have the infrastructure. They have limited resources, and a very content population that doesn't care to acquire material things or have influence in other parts of the world. Also, what kind of time frame are you even taking about here? You don't just instantly copy someone else's tech over night. Comics are written in a slowed down slidng time scale. Movie trilogies usually span only a few years.

That comment of mine was addressed to your point that the Amazons need to be perfect, be an example of female achievement, etc.
That's true. But in the parts of the world that people read comics, it's an issue that's being addressed. We're aknowledging it and we're striving for it. I dont think that people will be influenced by whether the Amazons are good or bad, or somewhere in the middle.
It helps but it's not necessary. They just have to be good people.

Nothing is absolutely "necessary" if you want to think of it like that. You say things are being "addressed," yet there are still gaps between men and women in modern society.

Also, i'm talking about comics that are struggling. Superman wasnt when Morrison wrote All-Star. I'm not saying all comics should be like that, but when you want to reestablish a franchise and update it for a modern age, you dont up the camp, you tone it down and get back to the basics.

If making things a bit lighter and campier was so bad, then fans wouldn't have accepted it. They would've said that Morrison was ruining Superman, but they didn't. Also, I don't believe that a discussion of comics should be limited to the comic books themselves, when the true popularity of these characters comes from their animated and live action adaptations. Comic sales are in the gutter, and nobody in the mainstream buys comic books anymore. The comic industry's desire to continue appealing to a narrow demographic of older fans, who they assume want things more serious and toned down, is leading to its own downfall. What they should do is target to the same kids who watch cartoons, while writing at an intelligent enough level for everyone to enjoy the stories.

[Auguste Dupin]

The Avengers universe has a 100,000 ton flying supercarrier with a cloaking device (that ridiculously launched real-life jet fighters that would be beyond primitive by its own standards, while the Avengers' scifi Quinjet was a mere transport), robotic armor so light that it can be folded up and carried in one hand, a vibranium shield that violates the very laws of physics, and crazy tech going all the way back to World War II. Tony Stark builds an impossible battle suit in an Afghan cave. Vanko builds his own in a run down apartment with no money or resources. It's exactly what I was talking about. A "real life" setting with arbitrary super tech inserted wherever the writers felt like it.

Yeah, it's unrealistic, but it's extrapolation from what we have. You have a giant plane flying over New York, sure, it's not possible in real life, but the two things don't scream "don't belong to the same world" to the viewer the way an invisible plane an an Amazon in tonga would. If they have purple healing rays, why are they still living in Greek style houses? They have an invisible plane with missiles on it , but they don't have shotguns, or cars, or canons? That doesn't make sense. On Avengers, every thing on the screen is an exageration of what we have. Giant plane? Comes from regular planes, and we already have some very big ones. Super advanced robot armor? We have lots of robotic stuff, and so it's not completely outrageous to a willing viewer to think it's sort of almost believable that a genius with billions of dollars to put on it would come up with something like that. It's not out of nowhere, the way it would be if Tony Stark was a caveman from a tribe that didn't have fire who suddenly builds a battlesuit. The Amazons in tonga and the stealthplane just don't belong to the same genre.
Besides, I think it would be more interesting to have the Amazons evolving in a different way (hence the magic) than in the same way than us, but better.