Ultimates #11 Discussion/Spoilers - Review by Plawsky

[wyokid]

I still think thats ascribing too much blame to Sue. People break up all the time. People get over it. I'd say if anyone were the bombardier it would be Reed's father. He was abusive, angry, petty, and that had to have some influence over Reed's psyche as he grew up.

There we go! See, I knew I had something there! Thanks for helping me work through that

[jphamlore]

Falcon mentioned that DNA served as an "anchor" in the multiverse; therefore, the tumor in Stark's head, being different DNA, would be a suitable anchor for ... something.

[jphamlore]

Very interesting issue.

Perhaps this mystery man in Texas will be connected to the new villain causing Divided We Fall.

I think Reed will be dealt with next issue and we are going to need a big antagonist to drive the event.

With them buying up the SHIELD bases to form their own militia it would explain the DWF teaser poster, and with their location it would also explain how X-Men will tie into Ultimates. Still not seeing how Spider-mans going to be involved yet though.

Why couldn't the "new villain" simply be Mysterio.

[Kurolegacy]

Yes because destroying a chunk of Europe, blowing up Washington, and wiping out an entire race is an acceptable reaction to a girl breaking up with you. This is all completely Sue's fault, how dare she.

Reed feels betrayed by everyone. He feels that science itself has been betrayed by the world. SUe may have been one factor in this but at the end of it all, it's Reed who acted upon all this. it's his fault and nobody else's.

Also I was under the impression they all thought he died in the negative zone?

I wasn't actually talking about her breaking up with him, but the fact that during the final battle in the Negative Zone, she was the one person who could have stopped him from floating off into the abyss when the land he was hanging onto broke away but didn't. Had he been captured back then, none of this would be happening now. In fact, while he would have been locked away, at very least, the gesture of having some friend in the world could have only helped before he went entirely off the deep end.

[wyokid]

I wasn't actually talking about her breaking up with him, but the fact that during the final battle in the Negative Zone, she was the one person who could have stopped him from floating off into the abyss when the land he was hanging onto broke away but didn't. Had he been captured back then, none of this would be happening now. In fact, while he would have been locked away, at very least, the gesture of having some friend in the world could have only helped before he went entirely off the deep end.

You are like Reed, stretching.

[jphamlore]

You are like Reed, stretching.

In Hickman's run on Fantastic Four it is only the choice to stay with his family and spend his time raising his son Franklin Richards, the son that will be greater than the father, that redeems the 616 Reed Richards. It appears it is a fairly narrow path that a Reed Richards must follow including marrying Sue, something Ultimate Reed stated was all he ever wanted to do but which became impossible.

Zombie Reed Richards, before he was a zombie, went crazy after his son was killed and wantonly caused damage with no possible positive outcome.

It also appears that the very composition of Ultimate Reed's universe precludes the type of endless time travel loops that the 616 Nathaniel and Franklin Richards appear to have used to eventually gain the wisdom to defeat the Mad Celestials. Ultimate Reed Richards has to get it right the first time and cleverly choose to accelerate evolution for a thousand years inside the dome.

Ultimate Reed Richards is neither perfect nor crazy. He made a decision, a series of decisions, but decisions that are more understandable in a version of the Marvel universe with the likes of Ultimate Nick Fury who is supposed to be one of the good guys.

[wyokid]

In Hickman's run on Fantastic Four it is only the choice to stay with his family and spend his time raising his son Franklin Richards, the son that will be greater than the father, that redeems the 616 Reed Richards. It appears it is a fairly narrow path that a Reed Richards must follow including marrying Sue, something Ultimate Reed stated was all he ever wanted to do but which became impossible.

Zombie Reed Richards, before he was a zombie, went crazy after his son was killed and wantonly caused damage with no possible positive outcome.

It also appears that the very composition of Ultimate Reed's universe precludes the type of endless time travel loops that the 616 Nathaniel and Franklin Richards appear to have used to eventually gain the wisdom to defeat the Mad Celestials. Ultimate Reed Richards has to get it right the first time and cleverly choose to accelerate evolution for a thousand years inside the dome.

Ultimate Reed Richards is neither perfect nor crazy. He made a decision, a series of decisions, but decisions that are more understandable in a version of the Marvel universe with the likes of Ultimate Nick Fury who is supposed to be one of the good guys.

That's what I am saying. This is Reed's fault, NOT Sue's.

[Kurolegacy]

In Hickman's run on Fantastic Four it is only the choice to stay with his family and spend his time raising his son Franklin Richards, the son that will be greater than the father, that redeems the 616 Reed Richards. It appears it is a fairly narrow path that a Reed Richards must follow including marrying Sue, something Ultimate Reed stated was all he ever wanted to do but which became impossible.

Zombie Reed Richards, before he was a zombie, went crazy after his son was killed and wantonly caused damage with no possible positive outcome.

It also appears that the very composition of Ultimate Reed's universe precludes the type of endless time travel loops that the 616 Nathaniel and Franklin Richards appear to have used to eventually gain the wisdom to defeat the Mad Celestials. Ultimate Reed Richards has to get it right the first time and cleverly choose to accelerate evolution for a thousand years inside the dome.

Ultimate Reed Richards is neither perfect nor crazy. He made a decision, a series of decisions, but decisions that are more understandable in a version of the Marvel universe with the likes of Ultimate Nick Fury who is supposed to be one of the good guys.

Phrasing things like that, it reminds me of Plawsky's theory of Ultimate Reed Richards having had an encounter with the Council of Reeds.

[Codah]

After seeing that mentioned I'm wondering if Marvel is going to make a announcement at comicon of a ultimate west coast book to debut next year.

OMG that's where Hickman went! He's not leaving us (I don't actually believe this but I would love it so much)!

[CaptainMarvell]

Just read this last night and it was good. Lots of setup. Tony and the President are clearly working together, but still not quite sure about Tony's plans. I never thought that the little kid Tony could possibly be AI instead of a hallucination. From the previews of the next one it appears the City is going to get affected by this kid Tony in some way, I'm guessing. The guy with the money is from the Kratos club. I wonder if these "Wackos" will be new characters in the Ultimate universe or just throw away cannon fodder characters that just happen to have powers. I was starting to the think the Ultimates were getting too big, so having a West Coast team is a good way to split them up. They need more than Hawkeye, Falcon, Widow and Fury though, while Cap, Iron Man and Thor will be on the regular Ultimates team.

[Celestin]

You are like Reed, stretching.

I think that Kurolegacy is right and current situation is partially Sue's fault. Their previous relationship aside, she decided to leave Reed to die in the Zone instead of letting Ben capture him and it turned out to be a very bad choice. We can argue if her emotions made her do that, but I'd blame other people just as much if they did it (like if Fury made similar call without any emotions involved, you would easily see that the whole situation now is his fault for making a bad decision in the action).

But you can't deny that Sue keeps making disastrous decisions when it comes to dealing with Reed.

[Bookem Danno]

a good issue

but I think it provides some necessary setup for what is to come in Divided We Fall. And while the setup is somewhat of an interruption, it's at least interesting.

Hickman and Humphries continue to be a great team. It's hard to know what comes from who, but neither one is bringing the book down.

what is that crossover going to be about and is there any connection to the robots slaughtering mutants?

An interesting side note:

Hugo Lopez is a one-appearance character from an old (1981) story in Avengers #203. That story involved some genetically created beings, though Hugo wasn't involved in their creation. This may be coincidental, or it could be another cool reference by Hickman, like Modi.

cool find

But you are right, this isn't really a team book anymore, its an event style book with a large cast. Which means, no one is really safe and can be moved on or off the board at any given time, or at least gives a reasonable illusion of such. These last few issues have been great, so I'm hoping Humpries continues with what Hickman started and hopefully gives it a proper resolution.

this totally feels true yet having no vested interested in the line makes this excusable and the allows this dragged out, multi-sidestory Event resolution to be bearable so far

This is what I think will happen in issue #12.
* Captain Britain, She-Hulk and Spiderwoman escape from the Cube and they partially destroy the Triskelion. Nick Fury then shows up and shoots Flumm in the head.
* Modi shows up at the W.C.O.S West Coast SHIELD base and rescues Monica, Clint and Sam.
* Thor, Tony and Sue destroy the City.
* Monica, Sam and Clint thank Modi. They ask who he is and ask him if he knows Thor. Modi doesn't respond. Instead he just flies off into the night sky without saying a word.
* Reed, First Knife, Death and Hulk leave earth via the Negative Zone.

interesting...

I'm pretty sure Tony's plan was intentionally not explained because it's going to be a surprise. And the young ghost Tony was just his imagination. Like it represented his inner child or something talking to him as he nears death.

clearly my take on the plan, neat idea with the death vision

Just realised that Tony's hallucination fits in with the X-Men characters who have been seeing "ghosts"... Only Tony's appears ho be him.

Thor is also seeing dead Asgardians...

Has anyone noticed this parallel before?

that makes things more neat

Phrasing things like that, it reminds me of Plawsky's theory of Ultimate Reed Richards having had an encounter with the Council of Reeds.

very curious which reality title will reference the other Reed first especially given the definitive deaths of the Council of 'all' Reeds

[BBlueMusiq]

I really wish Hickman would stick around in the UU. It needs his ideas. Like back when UU first started, it was Bendis and Miller. Now it's Bendis and Hickman (or it should be). I enjoyed issue 11 though, the biggest question I have is... what the frack is Furry up to?

Random: also the last page with Tony being delivered to Reed made me think of the Matrix. Such as when Neo was brought to the Machine City.

[Phelpzy]

I really wish Hickman would stick around in the UU. It needs his ideas. Like back when UU first started, it was Bendis and Miller. Now it's Bendis and Hickman (or it should be). I enjoyed issue 11 though, the biggest question I have is... what the frack is Furry up to?

Random: also the last page with Tony being delivered to Reed made me think of the Matrix. Such as when Neo was brought to the Machine City.

Issue 13 has so much to cover I hope it's double sized to fit all that needa to be told! I hope the young tony is something to do with a new armor

[Tracks]

I feel like Tony's going to use his tumor to his advantage somehow...not exactly sure how though.