Cancelling Wonder Woman

[Don-Jack]

I can't help thinking Diana will try to free Persephone from Hades

[SteveGus]

I don't know if I'd enjoy it so much either if I just breezed through it on the shelf. One of the things I really liked about 9 is how much Lennox and Hermes and co. sound like US talking about 8: Did Diana know what she was doing? Does she need to be saved?

I think that people should generally stop trying to closely read all of the puns and speculating about all the various dangling threads here. All that does is encourage readers to continue to be strung along plotlessly.

I check the book on the shelves to see if there are any fights in it; and if so, does Diana win them; and if so, does she do so using her superpowers. That's the extent of my interest at this point. It's like monitoring a comatose patient: you don't expect them to do much, and anything that happens will be a turn for the worse.

[carabas]

And something is seriously wrong when an editor lets a superhero book hit the presses without a single action sequence.

It's thinking like that that perpetuates the image of comics as just kids' stuff.

[slvn]

I think that people should generally stop trying to closely read all of the puns and speculating about all the various dangling threads here. All that does is encourage readers to continue to be strung along plotlessly.

But I like closely reading all of the puns and speculating about all the various not-yet-resolved threads. It's fine that you choose not to do that, but aren't you just telling me to stop liking what you don't like? Also, I don't see how you can call the story plotless; it continues to follow the "hero's journey" structure.

I check the book on the shelves to see if there are any fights in it; and if so, does Diana win them; and if so, does she do so using her superpowers. That's the extent of my interest at this point. It's like monitoring a comatose patient: you don't expect them to do much, and anything that happens will be a turn for the worse.

OK, if all you're looking for is fights, than it makes sense that you're disappointed. Personally, I like that this series is doing something a bit different from traditional superhero comics. But I'm also glad that the new digital series is giving you more of what you're looking for..

[BeccaBlast]

Surely there is more than an either-or choice between this series, which has been trudging for several issues now -- it's not abandoning Azz in the lurch to admit that this book puts the "DE" in decompressed -- and the mindless smash-bash-crash of say, AvX.

Yeah, I hate AvX -- so sue me. It does worse than make comics look like "kid stuff" -- it makes comics look like "drooling unwashed nerd at 2 AM in the basement" stuff.

Was there even a discussion of puns until mart pointed it out in his blog? Gotta give the dude credit where it is deserved. But his point is valid; even a horror comic has a modicum of times where the monster(s) must be dealt with. It's taking forever to get to that point here.

[Gaelforce]

But I like closely reading all of the puns and speculating about all the various not-yet-resolved threads. It's fine that you choose not to do that, but aren't you just telling me to stop liking what you don't like? Also, I don't see how you can call the story plotless; it continues to follow the "hero's journey" structure.



OK, if all you're looking for is fights, than it makes sense that you're disappointed. Personally, I like that this series is doing something a bit different from traditional superhero comics. But I'm also glad that the new digital series is giving you more of what you're looking for..

I also like a change of pace, and I love the story Azzarello is telling, *but* I agree (a bit) with SteveGus in that it is lacking in action overall. Yes, there are some fights, but they do lack that superhero feel to them. I don't want a lot of them, I don't want them to dominate the book, but I really would like to see at least one good four-color style 'Diana kicks butt' sequence with nice splash pages and a definitive, solid win for Diana over a definitive superpowered bad guy (Greek mythological bad guy is just fine ;) )

[SteveGus]

But I like closely reading all of the puns and speculating about all the various not-yet-resolved threads. It's fine that you choose not to do that, but aren't you just telling me to stop liking what you don't like? Also, I don't see how you can call the story plotless; it continues to follow the "hero's journey" structure.

No, I'm not telling you that you can't like it. (Though I can't help but wonder how many loose ends will be left when this miserable arc is finally over and hopefully the book moves on to new settings, new themes, and most importantly new atmospheres.)

With DC books, my basic approach now must be caution. Before I allow myself to take an interest in anything, I have to judge it closely. I used to simply follow characters and artists. Now I feel like I'm obliged to judge the tone and themes of a book first. If it has weird or horror themes, or gore, or even dull dark colors and serious moods, I put it back. DC needs to be encouraged to move away from that stuff, and buying it sends the wrong message. The reboot has mostly killed my inner fanboy for this reason.

OK, if all you're looking for is fights, than it makes sense that you're disappointed. Personally, I like that this series is doing something a bit different from traditional superhero comics. But I'm also glad that the new digital series is giving you more of what you're looking for..

I wouldn't say that all I am looking for is fights, but at this stage the reason why they're so important is highlighted. The basic problem with these gods as villains is that I don't really see how it's even being set up where they will be defeated when Wonder Woman socks them in the jaw. Or even disemboweling them the nu52 way.

Wonder Woman is a superhero, and Wonder Woman ought to be a traditional superhero comic, and I will continue to complain until it is one again.

[cgh]

DC needs to be encouraged to move away from that stuff

Wonder Woman ought to be a traditional superhero comic

No

Ten chars

[Dangerman]

Wonder Woman is part of the "big three" of DC. There is no way in hell she'll be cancelled like that.

[WhitOro]

Before I allow myself to take an interest in anything, I have to judge it closely.

Don't we all do that?

I used to simply follow characters and artists.

Which is stupid, because a token character and pretty pictures don't make a good story. The evil-evil 90s with their violent superheroes triumphed for this, you know that right? Instead of looking at the actual story people went "OMGOSH, Liefeld, Silvestri and Lee are drawing these! MUSTBUY!"

Now I feel like I'm obliged to judge the tone and themes of a book first.

Common sense is not an obligation, tone and themes must be judged to see if you take pleasure in reading about those things.
You should really feel obligated to re-read what you're writing right now, because it seems to me that the only thing the New 52 forced you to do is "think before buying", and it's not a bad thing to be teached.

If it has weird or horror themes, or gore, or even dull dark colors and serious moods, I put it back. DC needs to be encouraged to move away from that stuff, and buying it sends the wrong message. The reboot has mostly killed my inner fanboy for this reason.

The New 52 needs to move away from the stuff that I don't like, because I don't like it.

The basic problem with these gods as villains is that I don't really see how it's even being set up where they will be defeated when Wonder Woman socks them in the jaw.

"Damn you Azzarello! You made Wonder Woman so dark and violent!"

"Damn you Azzarello! Why Wonder Woman isn't beating her enemies into a pulp?!"

Or even disemboweling them the nu52 way.

Read the Flash. Read the Ray. You keep focuing on THE DAAAARK, but if don't actually take a look at what DC is actually publishing, all your ideas will just be centered on the DAAAAARK. Hard to believe but not everything being published now is DAAAARK.

Wonder Woman is a superhero,

Yes.

and Wonder Woman ought to be a traditional superhero comic,

No.

[slvn]

Surely there is more than an either-or choice between this series, which has been trudging for several issues now -- it's not abandoning Azz in the lurch to admit that this book puts the "DE" in decompressed -- and the mindless smash-bash-crash of say, AvX.

Oh, sure, there are other alternatives. But honestly, I don't see what this run has been doing as "trudging" at all. #7 made a big bang, albeit by backstory revelations, not primarily by action (though there was a bit). #8 introduced the realm of Hades, and had plenty of action for my taste as Wonder Woman and Hermes fought their way though the armies of the dead. And it ended with a potentially momentous development. And #9 built tension, leaving me anticipating this comic far, far more than any other comic this month. So, you know, if that's decompression, I'll take more decompression, please. When I think of decompression in the perjorative sense, I think more of Bendis having Hawkeye hanging around in Avengers Mansion talking to Wasp about basically nothing for panels and panels. I don't see this run of Wonder Woman like that at all. Even in 9, where there admittedly is basically no action, everything seems to me to be for a purpose, not meandering.

Was there even a discussion of puns until mart pointed it out in his blog?

Mart is great, but there's been discussion of puns since issue one ("sun of a king," etc.) Maybe that discussion was more on the DCMB at first.

It's taking forever to get to that point here.

It's taking a long time. It doesn't bother me, but it's perfectly understandable and in no way wrong to want a faster pace. What bugs me just a little is when a poster (not you, Becca) says what readers "should generally stop trying" to do, or says categorically what the comic always and invariably "ought to" be in terms of genre and tone, or declares what DC "needs to be encouraged" to move away from as if it were an objective need and not just a matter of taste or preference. I don't think any of us should mistake our personal preferences for laws that deserve general application (though of course, by saying that, maybe I'm contradicting myself. "I make this law: We must make no laws!" :) )

[sberg1]

DC needs to be encouraged to move away from that stuff, and buying it sends the wrong message.

Wonder Woman is a superhero, and Wonder Woman ought to be a traditional superhero comic, and I will continue to complain until it is one again.

DC needs to be encouraged to tell good stories, whether they be about superheroes, tales of horror or romance comics.

If you want to keep complaining until Wonder Woman is a traditional super-hero comic then I'm going to hope that you always feel the need to complain because I never want anything to be traditional about Diana.

[Etoma]

Some people think Brian's writing is ruining their beloved, traditional superhero; cancelling Wonder Woman will beginning of true ruin.

[Legato]

I will continue to complain until it is one again.

I'll just move on instead of losing alot of sleep and complain endlessly on a comic forum.

[SteveGus]

Common sense is not an obligation, tone and themes must be judged to see if you take pleasure in reading about those things.
You should really feel obligated to re-read what you're writing right now, because it seems to me that the only thing the New 52 forced you to do is "think before buying",

It's more about the loss of brand loyalty than anything else, I suppose. I used to trust DC; they kept the dull and dismal stuff in the Vertigo ghetto, where I could ignore it.

Read the Flash. Read the Ray. You keep focuing on THE DAAAARK, but if don't actually take a look at what DC is actually publishing, all your ideas will just be centered on the DAAAAARK. Hard to believe but not everything being published now is DAAAARK.

I have never followed the Flash. I have not followed the Ray. If I were a Flash fan I'd probably be even more upset. But I have always followed Wonder Woman, unfortunately. For now, I will remain a fan of the character even if the title is something I find impossible to enjoy.