Has Darkseid ever been beaten?

[Desaad]

Technically, the Radion bullet + Flashes leading the Black Racer were done to Turpin's body. It forced his soul (if DS ever had one) to escape the body, where Superman gave him the ultimate defeat before Darkseid could use the Miracle Machine. So I think his final defeat here counts as his true form being "beaten".

Radian is meant to be a form of radiation that hurts New Gods, presumably in their 'true form', so all of that would have had an effect. Likewise, the bullet itself was a platonic 'god bullet', the ideal form of a bullet, so it would have been from that noumenal realm. Ditto, presumably, his own Omega Beams and the Black Racer, itself a New God.

You can say his true form was 'beaten', but it was a true form that was dying from Orion's 'fatal blow', which is how he fell to the physical multiverse in the first place. So it wasn't a 'true form, fully empowered' Darkseid.

Bodies aren't wholly separate from the New God 'true forms', they're containers for them imbued with varying degrees of 'truth'. Destroy or hurting one presumably has some effect on the 'true form', just nothing catastrophic.

As for the War in Heaven, we never got to actually see it so we can't say if that was Darkseid's true form or just a body he was using. Forgive me, it's been a while since I read it; I may be remembering it wrong.

They make it clear throughout that there was a war in heaven, ie in the noumenal realm of the NEw Gods. Orion hits Darkseid with a fatal blow, which is how he falls into the physical multiverse, which is why he makes his last stand there. he was dying from the first of it.

[Grendel01]

Crossover's are not canon and if we did include it would make no sense since the phoenix had to kill itself just to stop him and the phoenix can beats Galactus. If Galactus actually got to the 4th world under his own power he would be the size of an insect the new gods are planet size big it's why they use avatars.

Doomsday:beat an avatar so doesn't count, I would be okay with Darkseid being beaten by the power of hope and love but not by a product of Kryptonian science considering he himself has made people more powerful than Doomsday.

I would consider the defeat in crisis a defeat but an incredibly hard to measure defeat especially with the god killing bullet.

Unaware of what the Cosmic Odyssey is.

I am afraid, you have drunk to much of Morrisons Kool-Aid.

The Phoenix in the Titans/X-Men crossover was a simulacron, besides that was long before the relevation that the Phoenix was a cosmic force and not a supermutated Jean Grey. Besides it didn't look to me like Darkseid could do anything, against the Phoenix once he lost control over it.

Galactus did travel to the 4th world under his own power and was still bigger than the NG's because he can change his size. Also the NGs are housesized in their true appearances, but that is it.

That whole avatar thing by Morrison doesn't really vibe with everything else ever established about the New Gods. And we only read about it in interviews, but not even in the comics themselves. The New Gods had to die before they could return as ghostlike-beings close to what Morrison discribed which of course doesn't mesh with his statements.

And yes, in the proper DCU, the NG's are pretty much dimished to being just another bunch of superbeings. It explains why Morrison tried to upgrade them, but it doesn't undo their former presentations.

[Desaad]

I am afraid, you have drunk to much of Morrisons Kool-Aid.

This kind of random, drive by insult not only isn't very nice, it's also hilarious given how innaccurate the rest of your post is, and how few of your points have anything to do with Morrison at all.

Galactus did travel to the 4th world under his own power and was still bigger than the NG's because he can change his size. Also the NGs are housesized in their true appearances, but that is it.

It was a merged universe story. It's the same as the Captain America/Batman story inw hich they existed on the same earth. It doesn't count.

Also, you're NG knowledge is woefully underdeveloped. Planets were the size of MARBLES next to the New Gods when the idea that they were giants was introduced, in the Pollack run. Then, in PAD's Supergirl arc, they were about the size of Galactus in relative terms (the average size of galactus, since he does fluctuate).

That whole avatar thing by Morrison doesn't really vibe with everything else ever established about the New Gods. And we only read about it in interviews, but not even in the comics themselves. The New Gods had to die before they could return as ghostlike-beings close to what Morrison discribed which of course doesn't mesh with his statements.

It vibes PERFECTLY with what we've learned about the New Gods thus far, and it was mentioned in the comics - Final Crisis, Final Crisis Secret Files, and Batman 701-2, and Seven Soldiers. It's not just interviews.

But the idea of a 'true form' of the NEw Gods has been seen in various forms since the original v1, when it's revealed that there are multiple Black Racers and that Willie has taken on only an aspect of 'it'. In v2, the Evanier run, Orion reveals his 'true form' and becomes an Eternity-esque giant (from the Marvel universe). John Byrne showed the Forever People take on their 'true forms' on earth during the Genesis event, because their very presence had a calming, spiritual effect. He also established the idea that Darkseid uses avatars and that he had never 'truly' been beaten physically. This was picked up on by Alan Grant in "Anarky". Walter Simonson had PLANNED on having Orion take on his 'true form' to defeat a foe he was being prepared for by the Old Gods, but the series was canceled before he got to it.

Morrison has an interesting and different take on it, but the idea of the New Gods 'truly' being more glorious than anything we see and interpret is firmly entrenched in the mythos.

And yes, in the proper DCU, the NG's are pretty much dimished to being just another bunch of superbeings. It explains why Morrison tried to upgrade them, but it doesn't undo their former presentations.

You certainly don't have to accept it, but it does undo their former presentations. That's the nature of a retcon - it retroactively connects continuity in new ways.

[Grendel01]

This kind of random, drive by insult not only isn't very nice, it's also hilarious given how innaccurate the rest of your post is, and how few of your points have anything to do with Morrison at all.

I didn't mean it as insult. Just a remainder that these concepts and the statements are all and pretty much exclusivly from Morrisions mind

It was a merged universe story. It's the same as the Captain America/Batman story inw hich they existed on the same earth. It doesn't count.

Also, you're NG knowledge is woefully underdeveloped. Planets were the size of MARBLES next to the New Gods when the idea that they were giants was introduced, in the Pollack run. Then, in PAD's Supergirl arc, they were about the size of Galactus in relative terms (the average size of galactus, since he does fluctuate).

You are refering to one throw away line, when the one thing that was actually shown was them to be as big as houses in their natural habitat, when you don't use the scale adjusting Boomtube to travel to their dimension as Supergirl did.
As far as the merged Universe stories were concerned, they nontheless showed Galactus as Darkseid superior, same as the pseudo-Phoenix was more powerful than Darkseid.

It vibes PERFECTLY with what we've learned about the New Gods thus far, and it was mentioned in the comics - Final Crisis, Final Crisis Secret Files, and Batman 701-2, and Seven Soldiers. It's not just interviews.

You overlook, that in the comics they first had to die(Death of the New Gods) and fall back in time, before they became bodyless beings akin to ghosts or demons possessing people, while Morrison claimed that the real New Gods never before had been seen, which raises the question what exactly New Genesis and Apocalpse are, if they don't even exist on these worlds. That gods are shapeshifters is one thing, but Morrsion aside from turning them into bodysnatching demons claimed that they exist in the 5th dimension. I don't remember seeing that this made it inside the comics

But the idea of a 'true form' of the NEw Gods has been seen in various forms since the original v1, when it's revealed that there are multiple Black Racers and that Willie has taken on only an aspect of 'it'. In v2, the Evanier run, Orion reveals his 'true form' and becomes an Eternity-esque giant (from the Marvel universe). John Byrne showed the Forever People take on their 'true forms' on earth during the Genesis event, because their very presence had a calming, spiritual effect. He also established the idea that Darkseid uses avatars and that he had never 'truly' been beaten physically. This was picked up on by Alan Grant in "Anarky". Walter Simonson had PLANNED on having Orion take on his 'true form' to defeat a foe he was being prepared for by the Old Gods, but the series was canceled before he got to it.

Morrison has an interesting and different take on it, but the idea of the New Gods 'truly' being more glorious than anything we see and interpret is firmly entrenched in the mythos.

Yes, it was either Desaad posing as Darkseid or an avatar, except for the times, when it was Darkseid. And that the Black Races is just one aspect of Death doesn't mean much for his New God status. They are plenty of of different incarnations of Death in the DCU. My problem with Morrision is that he enforces his ideas on the New Gods without regard for the past. I understand that he is trying to make them more god-like, which in a shared superhero universe, they hardely were, but he went to far IMO, from the SOURCE, so to speak.

You certainly don't have to accept it, but it does undo their former presentations. That's the nature of a retcon - it retroactively connects continuity in new ways.

I know what a retcon is, except what Morrison stated and what actually was shown in the comics were two different things.

[Kirayoshi]

Santa Claus defeats him every year, evidently, just to deliver his regular lump of coal.

If we're counting AUs and Elseworlds, there's "Justice League: Another Nail" where he was taken down by a Green Lantern-powered Big Barda, with a little help from Mr. Miracle.

IIRC Orion took him down in a big epic battle by Walt (go-to guy for epic battles) Simonson. This was a start for a major arc where Orion nearly became as bad as Darkseid was.