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  1. #181
    Senior Member timeismoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    Well, we might as well close down CBR then if talking about stuff is of no use.
    No we should not as I understand what you are saying, but at the end of the day as AJBopp put it they will do what is best for their bottom line. Which is why there is a hundred Avengers, X Men and Batman titles.

    Can Marvel use more female titles sure and the fact that they have only one is sad.
    Animals sense weakness, sharks smell blood in water
    Ishmael, Moses and Job, knew the divine order.

  2. #182
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    The thing that DC seems to realize that Marvel doesn't is that female superheroes can have universal appeal and not need to pander to certain demographics. Forget the tired cliches that female readers need role models and male readers just want to see cheesecake. All you need is a character with some depth and humanity, give her a clear motivation, give her a rogues gallery whose personalities contrast well with hers, and put her in a setting that lets you tell stories that can stand on their own, but also don't seem irrelevant when compared to what the guys are doing. It doesn't hurt to make her look great while punching bad guys in the face, but it needs to be done in a way that doesn't insult the reader's intelligence. Steer clear of any overt feminism, she doesn't need to be driving home the point that she can do everything as well as men, the best way to get that message across is to just assume the reader knows it from the get go. Don't spend too much time on her love life, the perception that women care only about this and nothing else is the reason most female characters get relegated to bland love interest and never break out of that. And don't ever dwell too much on the topic of whether she is strong despite being a woman or because of it, just write someone who feels genuine and natural.

  3. #183
    Senior Member timeismoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOff View Post
    The thing that DC seems to realize that Marvel doesn't is that female superheroes can have universal appeal and not need to pander to certain demographics. Forget the tired cliches that female readers need role models and male readers just want to see cheesecake. All you need is a character with some depth and humanity, give her a clear motivation, give her a rogues gallery whose personalities contrast well with hers, and put her in a setting that lets you tell stories that can stand on their own, but also don't seem irrelevant when compared to what the guys are doing. It doesn't hurt to make her look great while punching bad guys in the face, but it needs to be done in a way that doesn't insult the reader's intelligence. Steer clear of any overt feminism, she doesn't need to be driving home the point that she can do everything as well as men, the best way to get that message across is to just assume the reader knows it from the get go. Don't spend too much time on her love life, the perception that women care only about this and nothing else is the reason most female characters get relegated to bland love interest and never break out of that. And don't ever dwell too much on the topic of whether she is strong despite being a woman or because of it, just write someone who feels genuine and natural.
    This right here.
    Animals sense weakness, sharks smell blood in water
    Ishmael, Moses and Job, knew the divine order.

  4. #184
    Member The Imakandi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOff View Post
    The thing that DC seems to realize that Marvel doesn't is that female superheroes can have universal appeal and not need to pander to certain demographics. Forget the tired cliches that female readers need role models and male readers just want to see cheesecake. All you need is a character with some depth and humanity, give her a clear motivation, give her a rogues gallery whose personalities contrast well with hers, and put her in a setting that lets you tell stories that can stand on their own, but also don't seem irrelevant when compared to what the guys are doing. It doesn't hurt to make her look great while punching bad guys in the face, but it needs to be done in a way that doesn't insult the reader's intelligence. Steer clear of any overt feminism, she doesn't need to be driving home the point that she can do everything as well as men, the best way to get that message across is to just assume the reader knows it from the get go. Don't spend too much time on her love life, the perception that women care only about this and nothing else is the reason most female characters get relegated to bland love interest and never break out of that. And don't ever dwell too much on the topic of whether she is strong despite being a woman or because of it, just write someone who feels genuine and natural.
    Nice post, real nice
    "Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority agrees."

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  5. #185

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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOff View Post
    The thing that DC seems to realize that Marvel doesn't is that female superheroes can have universal appeal and not need to pander to certain demographics. Forget the tired cliches that female readers need role models and male readers just want to see cheesecake. All you need is a character with some depth and humanity, give her a clear motivation, give her a rogues gallery whose personalities contrast well with hers, and put her in a setting that lets you tell stories that can stand on their own, but also don't seem irrelevant when compared to what the guys are doing. It doesn't hurt to make her look great while punching bad guys in the face, but it needs to be done in a way that doesn't insult the reader's intelligence. Steer clear of any overt feminism, she doesn't need to be driving home the point that she can do everything as well as men, the best way to get that message across is to just assume the reader knows it from the get go. Don't spend too much time on her love life, the perception that women care only about this and nothing else is the reason most female characters get relegated to bland love interest and never break out of that. And don't ever dwell too much on the topic of whether she is strong despite being a woman or because of it, just write someone who feels genuine and natural.
    I love this post!

    I also want to say that Marvel has made attempts in the past. I think that Girl Comics and Marvel Divas were attempts to reach a larger female demographic. She-Hulk and Ms. Marvel had moderate runs. I think the Tsunami line may have been created to reach the manga/female audience. Perhaps what should be discussed is the way each company goes about it, and what worked and did not work with each attempt.

    For DC, Wonder Woman and Batwoman are currently the gold standard for how to do it. Promotion, attention, beautiful artwork, a compelling story, creative teams that are at least well-respected, and an interesting lead who is female.
    Nanny: The True Phoenix Egg

  6. #186
    Senior Member FIFTY-TWO (52)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJBopp View Post
    And you still haven't made a reasonable case for those statements.
    Which do you need a reasonable case for?
    That men will endure most anything for sex, or that women went in droves for repeat viewings of a romance novel on a boat starring DiCapprio at peak levels of his sex appeal and a chunky woman they could Mary Sue their way into to live out their fantasies?

    It's just not that hard to figure out. Plus analysts have noted on more than one occasion the box office power of females. They make up over 50% of box office receipts and they often decide what the couple will watch.
    Last edited by FIFTY-TWO (52); 05-28-2012 at 04:40 PM.
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  7. #187
    Winter is Coming ronedog22's Avatar
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    On another note. Why not add a X-men solo title female led? They are putting out a Gambit solo series, and really he is a cool guy but some female characters that are X-men would work just as well when added to the 20 million X-men titles.
    "...The measure of a man is not in what he says, but what he does."

  8. #188
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIFTY-TWO (52) View Post
    Which do you need a reasonable case for?
    That men will endure most anything for sex, or that women went in droves for repeat viewings of a romance novel on a boat starring DiCapprio at peak levels of his sex appeal and a chunky woman they could Mary Sue their way into to live out their fantasies?
    You're really trying to tell me that men won't see a big budget disaster movie with spectacular set pieces, done by the guy that did Aliens and the Terminator films, unles there's sex afterwards?
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  9. #189
    Senior Member FIFTY-TWO (52)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    You're really trying to tell me that men won't see a big budget disaster movie with spectacular set pieces, done by the guy that did Aliens and the Terminator films, unles there's sex afterwards?
    Oh, they'll see it, but there has to be an incentive to be dragged into repeat viewings of The Titanic.
    "A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her."

    Oscar Wilde

  10. #190
    Elder Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIFTY-TWO (52) View Post
    Oh, they'll see it, but there has to be an incentive to be dragged into repeat viewings of The Titanic.
    Maybe that Celine Dion song?

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIFTY-TWO (52) View Post
    I'm quite certain the general public hated 4 of those movies.
    Bullshit, the only people who hated any of those movies were movie critics and all the other snooty people of their ilk with their supposed "superior and or refined tastes" or whatever... a small but vocal (in the internet) minority.
    Last edited by Rud; 05-28-2012 at 06:48 PM.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rud View Post
    Bullshit, the only people who hated any of those movies were movie critics and all the other snooty people of their ilk with their supposed "superior and or refined tastes" or whatever... a small but vocal (in the internet) minority.
    most of them are bad and people who like them are commoners! Only people who own land should get an opinion I say!

  13. #193
    Elder Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rud View Post
    Bullshit, the only people who hated any of those movies were movie critics and all the other snooty people of their ilk with their supposed "superior and or refined tastes" or whatever... a small but vocal (in the internet) minority.
    People may have thought they were enjoyable, but if they used the term "great" to describe them, I'm not sure if it would have meant "a classic work of art that will be enjoyed and appreciated by generation after generation" (or something else equally highfalutin).

  14. #194
    Tai'shar Manetheren Jadenewt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rud View Post
    Bulls***, the only people who hated any of those movies were movie critics and all the other snooty people of their ilk with their supposed "superior and or refined tastes" or whatever... a small but vocal (in the internet) minority.
    Most of the people I know when asked about great movies wouldn't mention any of those movies.
    D-Deadman! You killed Deadman!!

  15. #195
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rud View Post
    Bullshit, the only people who hated any of those movies were movie critics and all the other snooty people of their ilk with their supposed "superior and or refined tastes" or whatever... a small but vocal (in the internet) minority.
    Any Transformers film or Star Wars prequel is pretty much hated and derided universally wherever people who love films gather. W're talking vocal majority here.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

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