Batman Annual #1 Preview/Discussion SPOILERS

[Dr. Hurt]

In the end Thomas was just one person who ended up being evil. One guy.

Snyder has already infested the wayne household with owls. He's shown them dealing with them throughout their history, the owls even creep inside the manor. And if the Kanes are in it, then there's big part of the family that's in it. It's not some random Wayne in the long history of the family like Thomas was.

It just ties the family history to the owls too much. Cant the Wayne family be a normal family that didnt deal with owls and assassins and supervillains?

[Namtab]

Cool story, Hansel.

lol, Zoolander

Honestly, that movie wasn't very good. And, the CGI parts were horrendous. :/

Hmm, I don't remember it being that bad. It can't be worse than the CGI in Golgo 13: the Professional.

[ForeverYoung8]

In the end Thomas was just one person who ended up being evil. One guy.

Snyder has already infested the wayne household with owls. He's shown them dealing with them throughout their history, the owls even creep inside the manor. And if the Kanes are in it, then there's big part of the family that's in it. It's not some random Wayne in the long history of the family like Thomas was.

It just ties the family history to the owls too much. Cant the Wayne family be a normal family that didnt deal with owls and assassins and supervillains?

Yeah, one guy who started the Black Glove.

She would be one woman who joined the owls.

And depending on whether you consider Superman/Batman to have any sort of fuzzy continuity or not, Thomas Wayne met Jor-El & saw Krypton. I don't think the family has been "normal" for a very long time.

[maxpower00044]

It just ties the family history to the owls too much. Cant the Wayne family be a normal family that didnt deal with owls and assassins and supervillains?

Have the Wayne's ever just been a normal family? Any time I've read them, they've always seemed to have a shady past.

[maxpower00044]

lol, Zoolander



Hmm, I don't remember it being that bad. It can't be worse than the CGI in Golgo 13: the Professional.

Haha, yes! Zoolander.

I just remember certain CGI parts that I thought "that looked like crap and didn't need to be there. "

[Theozilla]

Well all they had to do was not allow him to get Norah. Or even get her for a short period of time and explore how that would be like. Then her illness could relapse. Perhaps she'll love him, or be appalled by what he did, and when she gets frozen again he goes back to loving her, or abandons her and moves on.

Mr Freeze's story doesnt have to end. Hell, Morrison even killed Batman for a while and the story is still going. I'm sure they could do a lot of things with him if they actually tried.

The Morrison comparison doesn't make sense to me. Sure Morrison killed Batman, but he is not going to finish Batman's "Third Act", he give closure to his run but will make sure everyone can still do stuff with Batman in the future. And you're being kind of jerkish to imply that Synder is not actually trying to write Mr. Freeze.

True enough. I think we have a lot of truly villainous rogues, but not enough of neutral ones. Mr.Freeze started as a neutral one, so it's sad to lose him. Especially when he's a scientist that can offer a lot to the DCU and its heroes.

Now he's a complete lunatic. He's very 2D.

Uh, Mr. Freeze did not start out as a neutral villain, he started out as a campy villain called Mr. Zero. And he was not neutral in "Heart of Ice" or TAS either, he was sympathetic but certainly not a neutral character. And IMO the new modified origin stills has him as a sympathetic villain but just in a different way, I don't think he is anymore "2D" than he was in TAS.

[RoughNTumble]

couldn't this story have been done without retconning heart of ice?

just have nora die and freeze start to obsess about...other frozen women?

[maxpower00044]

couldn't this story have been done without retconning heart of ice?

just have nora die and freeze start to obsess about...other frozen women?

What does the DCAU have to do with the comic book DCU?

[BlueLily]

We last saw her in Return of Bruce Wayne, right?

That...would actually be kind of cool. It would explain why Alfred's father was in such a hurry to leave (he'd have known her, and perhaps discovered her plot).

It would actually fit Snyders M.O., too. He likes to connect his stories to characters' pasts, and this would allow him to do something with Bruce's family without directly including Thomas & Martha.

Perhaps it was their senseless murder that got her to join it, to "control the city"? I like this idea.

Now this actually seems interesting... I've been one of the harshest critics of this whole Owl story but this could be a cool twist.

Although, given her background and the swarm that appeared in RoBW #5, I think the Court of Wasps would be more appropriate.

[JasonTodd428]

Cant the Wayne family be a normal family that didnt deal with owls and assassins and supervillains?

Looking back at the Wayne Family history that we have been shown I would be given to say that they have never been a "normal" family and that they have always had connections with shady groups: the Black Glove, the League of Assassins (through Damian) and others. I really don't understand why it is so surprising to some people that they have been connected with yet another shady group in the Court of Owls. Seems to merely be a recurring theme in Bat mythos from where I'm standing.

[maxpower00044]

Double w/ cheese.

[Theozilla]

What does the DCAU have to do with the comic book DCU?

Yeah, Mr. Freeze's comic origin reintrodction in the 90s also modified "Heart of Ice" as well, and I believe that was even written by Dini himself.

[gorosaurus]

This issue had a lot of Plot Induced Stupidity. Leaving the shrink alone with Fries and keeping Freeze's suit on the premises was dumb. And the bypassing the scanner with the severed digit/hand of an authorized person has been done to death. The art was nice, but this issue was a snooze. Why did DC slap a Court of Owls logo on it- because they were mentioned once or twice?

[TZDEKA]

couldn't this story have been done without retconning heart of ice?

just have nora die and freeze start to obsess about...other frozen women?

Snyder said on Twitter that DC wanted Nora alive.

[Retro315]

My theory has been for a little while now that the woman in the wheelchair is Bruce's maternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kane. She has a similar appearance to Elizabeth Kane, is in a wheelchair like Elizabeth Kane, and the Kanes were implied to be one of the families involved with the Court of Owls way back in Gates of Gotham. Plus, it would explain why the solicit for issue 10 hypes up who the identity of the "mastermind" is, which implies it'll actually be something of a revelation as opposed to "Oh, it was somebody who has no ties to anyone in the main cast!" I think some people here would complain because they didn't like the fact that Cobb was Dick's grandfather, but I think it's more likely DC would allow Snyder to do that than it would be that they'd let Alfred be behind it or something. So yeah, that's my guess, could be wrong but it seems most likely to me given what we know.

It's a great idea and it'd be fascinating to me if Bruce's grandmother was still around, except that we know Snyder as a guy who foreshadows everything so heavily, and that would literally come out of nowhere. Apart from Gates of Gotham, the Kanes haven't been mentioned anywhere in the Court of Owls storyline. Not even a little.