Why the Ultraverse characters have been allowed to disappear

[icctrombone]

I wonder if Dc could have been successful reviving it. The Ultraverse properties were all copies of existing characters and ,to my knowledge, DC hasn't made a hit out of any of their past acquired properties . But it does seem a waste for Marvel to just bury all those creations.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I wonder if Dc could have been successful reviving it. The Ultraverse properties were all copies of existing characters and ,to my knowledge, DC hasn't made a hit out of any of their past acquired properties . But it does seem a waste for Marvel to just bury all those creations.

Well, unless you count Watchmen. It was originally intended for those characters not to be analogues.

[icctrombone]

Well, unless you count Watchmen. It was originally intended for those characters not to be analogues.

I guess I don't count Watchmen because The Charlton heroes never had that dept.

[Rasputin9977]

Actually, according to Tom Mason, Marvel bought the Ultraverse for the sole purpose of keeping the property out of DC's hands. They were scared that with the fan following Ultraverse had, that a DC/Ultraverse union would knock Marvel down to the number two comic publisher. So, to prevent this, Marvel bought the Ultraverse. They had no interest in the coloring system as some rumors say, as most of Marvel's coloring staff were of the old school, and didn't know anything about the system. Marvel really didn't have any commitment to the Ultraverse, and only put out the "Marvelized Ultraverse" titles to see if they get a few bucks from their purchase. Unfortunately, Marvel's overhaul of a successful comic line, only ruined it. First, Ultraverse, now Cross Gen.... Oh what could have b een, if DC had gotten their hands on it

Where did Mason say this?

[Ed Love]

As for Protectors, you're right, they were based on the old Centaur characters that were in the public domain. At the time, we hired comics historian and writer Ron Goulart (who I knew ever so slightly) to draft brief bios of the characters based on their Centaur backstories so we knew more about them (and that's how Fantoman became Gravestone, because Fantoman is such a silly 1940s name), and Jerry Bingham did a lot of new design work to make the characters look more modern. The revised and updated characters published by Malibu as the Protectors were owned completely by Malibu - there are no creator-contract issues there at all, and all of Malibu's rights transferred to Marvel 100%. The original Centaur characters are still in the public domain and can be revived and used by others as long as they're different enough from the Malibu updates.

Since you're in the known... I would swear that there were other characters, not just the Centaur ones originally planned, that I saw some of Bingham's promo art in a magazine, only with updated versions of characters such as the Clown and Holyoke's Catman. Yet, when the comics finally came about, it was pretty much just Centaur's heroes. When I bring this up, I seem to be the only one that remembers it.

Fantoman was originally Phantom of the Fair and served as a villain in a team-up story between the Sandman and Crimson Avenger. Think Wagner brought him back as a villain again in the Vertigo Sandman Mystery Theatre.

Ask creators like James Robinson, and they seem to feel the main reason those characters don't come back are the contracts Malibu had with the creators are not conducive to a company like Marvel to pursue. Wish they'd do something with them or just sell the characters back to the original creators.

[Tom Mason]

Since you're in the known... I would swear that there were other characters, not just the Centaur ones originally planned, that I saw some of Bingham's promo art in a magazine, only with updated versions of characters such as the Clown and Holyoke's Catman. Yet, when the comics finally came about, it was pretty much just Centaur's heroes. When I bring this up, I seem to be the only one that remembers it.

Fantoman was originally Phantom of the Fair and served as a villain in a team-up story between the Sandman and Crimson Avenger. Think Wagner brought him back as a villain again in the Vertigo Sandman Mystery Theatre.

Ask creators like James Robinson, and they seem to feel the main reason those characters don't come back are the contracts Malibu had with the creators are not conducive to a company like Marvel to pursue. Wish they'd do something with them or just sell the characters back to the original creators.

Hi Ed Love - You are correct. There were a number of non-Centaur public domain characters that we were thinking of incorporating. Jerry Bingham did a lot of character designs and I recall that we teased some of them, but we ended up with more characters than we had comics for. I used to have a folder with copies of all his designs, but that's long gone now.

Marvel executives have said several times that the contracts with the creators are not an issue in any discussion of reviving the Ultraverse, and I believe them. There are apparently other issues at play that don't relate to creator contracts at all. And looking at it from a business standpoint, if the contracts were some kind of stumbling block, all Marvel would have to do would be to approach the founders and open a discussion about adjusting them. Contracts are never set in stone and get revised and renegotiated all the time.

They'll never sell the characters back to the founders or to anyone. A company like Disney simply doesn't sell off its IP - there's no upside to it.

[Tom Mason]

Where did Mason say this?

Hi Rasputin -- Actually I said it earlier in this thread (#80) which includes a link to a longer response of mine at Bleeding Cool.

And to correct what Detective Hoag said above: "Marvel really didn't have any commitment to the Ultraverse, and only put out the "Marvelized Ultraverse" titles to see if they get a few bucks from their purchase. Unfortunately, Marvel's overhaul of a successful comic line, only ruined it."

That's not accurate. The Marvelizing of the Ultraverse came from the Ultraverse editors. They put together a pitch for mixing and matching Marvel elements and working with various Marvel editors to see what was available that wasn't currently being utilized in the MU and what could work. This was a variation of the internal pitch that the editors put together when it looked like DC was going to be the winning buyer. The idea of adding Loki, the Infinity Gems and Juggernaut (and other things) into the UV came from the UV editorial team.

[Nomads1]

This was a variation of the internal pitch that the editors put together when it looked like DC was going to be the winning buyer. The idea of adding Loki, the Infinity Gems and Juggernaut (and other things) into the UV came from the UV editorial team.

Just out of curiosity, can you tells a bit of what the DC pitch looked like?

Peace

[RLAAMJR.]

I want them back especially Pressure and Prime and Anything!

[Ed Love]

Hi Ed Love - You are correct. There were a number of non-Centaur public domain characters that we were thinking of incorporating. Jerry Bingham did a lot of character designs and I recall that we teased some of them, but we ended up with more characters than we had comics for. I used to have a folder with copies of all his designs, but that's long gone now.

Marvel executives have said several times that the contracts with the creators are not an issue in any discussion of reviving the Ultraverse, and I believe them. There are apparently other issues at play that don't relate to creator contracts at all. And looking at it from a business standpoint, if the contracts were some kind of stumbling block, all Marvel would have to do would be to approach the founders and open a discussion about adjusting them. Contracts are never set in stone and get revised and renegotiated all the time.

They'll never sell the characters back to the founders or to anyone. A company like Disney simply doesn't sell off its IP - there's no upside to it.

Glad to know I didn't just imagine it.

I can understand the reasoning behind not selling the characters if they were at least working towards doing something with the characters. What makes an IP valuable though is public recognition. There's no real upside to holding on to them either if nothing is being done with them. At least trot out a mini-series, one shot, guest-appearances in order to maintain the trademarks. Or lease them to a third party like Dynamite or Dark Horse to develop. At least get some money out of them.

[Hypestyle]

It will take progressive, bold vision to reinvent the Malibu characters, whether in their own sub-world or in the Marvel Universe proper.. stop listening to the alarmist lawyers.. marvel/disney should just publish the characters, pay the creators what's owed, and leave it at that..

[anthony!]

Marvel seems to be the place where other properties go to die. It's kinda sad that they own CrossGen, Malibu, and even Marvelman, and so far.... either nuthin', or false starts.

Perhaps Marvel NOW! should have included a surprise non-Marvel character integrated into the 616 with a high profile creative team. Still think Rune would be great in the MU...

[Tom Mason]

Just out of curiosity, can you tells a bit of what the DC pitch looked like?

Peace

Hi Nomads -- I used to have a pile of notes on the proposal but they're probably packed in a box somewhere. From memory, I can tell you that the pitch involved crossing-over Green Lantern into the Ultraverse. This was at a point - 1994 - when GL wasn't quite the big star of the DCU that he's since become. Since we had no hope of getting appearances from Batman, Superman, etc., we considered GL the most viable story-wise of DC's second and third tier characters. I must stress that the pitch never went outside the office and never went to DC. I wrote about why - and go into greater detail about the sale of Malibu - in a post at Longbox Graveyard. http://goo.gl/U1M6A

[Frank]

I think if Marvel has put loser characters like Rocket Racoon, and a celeri-head alien and a few others under the old banner of the Guardians of the Galaxy and decided that it was now a hot movie property, anything can happen.

[Ed Love]

Marvel seems to be the place where other properties go to die. It's kinda sad that they own CrossGen, Malibu, and even Marvelman, and so far.... either nuthin', or false starts.

Perhaps Marvel NOW! should have included a surprise non-Marvel character integrated into the 616 with a high profile creative team. Still think Rune would be great in the MU...

Been thinking that since the announcement. Marvel NOW is a blatant attempt at trying to garner interest and headlines without actually having anything new to offer. It's the same thing they've been doing for years now, only with a different slogan/header attached. Marvelman was announced with much fanfare TWO YEARS AGO and nothing to show for it than some reprints. Blow people's minds, fold in the Crossgen (where possible), Marvelman, Shadowline, and Ultraverse titles (maybe along with some other Malibu titles such as X-Mutants, how do they not put out an X book with that title or FreeX?). New villains in the main Marvel U like Rune, Dr. Zero, and Lord Pumpkin could infuse some new life. Put Marvelman and Hardcase on the
Uncanny Avengers. Put Miracle Man in the Ultimates or Max line. If you have the rights, make use of both versions!