Pipeline - May 22, 2012

[CBR News]

As Augie reminds himself of why he doesn't venture out into comic book message boards anymore, he ponders the idea of applying modern coloring techniques to older comics.


Full article here.

[Alex6166]

I thumbed through the X-Men #1 anniversary issue. I don't think I really dug the recoloring and the stuff they added. Strangely enough I found the X-Men #1 'E' issue with the fold-out cover from that era for about a dollar. Finally completed my A,B,C,D, and E covers. I didn't buy all of them. As for X-Force. Well, it had a lot of energy and Liefeld got to hype the book on jeans commercial. What a time to be alive.

[BurningDoom]

Riiiight. It's us 1000s of fans that are wrong about Rob Lifield producing crap from a pencil, and you're absolutely right about it. We're just a bunch of pretencious trolls. Give me a break. How can sooooo many of us just be wrong and your opinion about him above us. It's a bit disheartening the way you sweep all of us into this category of vicious trolls just because we point out crap when we see it. I guess we should all just be happy about deformed bodies and man-boobs.

[dancj]

Riiiight. It's us 1000s of fans that are wrong about Rob Lifield producing crap from a pencil, and you're absolutely right about it. We're just a bunch of pretencious trolls. Give me a break. How can sooooo many of us just be wrong and your opinion about him above us. It's a bit disheartening the way you sweep all of us into this category of vicious trolls just because we point out crap when we see it. I guess we should all just be happy about deformed bodies and man-boobs.

If you're going around message boards bad mouthing Liefeld every opportunity you get then yes you are a troll.

Personally I think he turned out a decent job on the original Hawk and Dove mini 20 odd years ago (courtesy of Karl Kesel) and has been terrible ever since, but I'm happy to sit back and let others enjoy his work.

[Drithien]

Riiiight. It's us 1000s of fans that are wrong about Rob Lifield producing crap from a pencil, and you're absolutely right about it. We're just a bunch of pretencious trolls. Give me a break. How can sooooo many of us just be wrong and your opinion about him above us. It's a bit disheartening the way you sweep all of us into this category of vicious trolls just because we point out crap when we see it. I guess we should all just be happy about deformed bodies and man-boobs.

But he IS absolutely right about it. Art is a form of personal expression, thus a subjective matter. So there is no such thing as bad quality art, just art that YOU do not like. This is a very simple concept. Honestly, they don't come much simpler. But at the same time it seems they don't come much harder, because to understand it you must put aside your ego and realise that you are wrong when you lash out at someone just because he draws in a way that you don't like. You don't like Rob Liefeld's art? Don't look at it! Simple. Instead most of you "1000s of fans" pretty much stalk Rob Liefeld's appearances in comic related news, only to try to put him down. Just how, horribly, mind-numbingly pathetic is that? It makes one wonder about how messed up must someone be, to come off as so obssesively bitter, about an artist's work of all things. And it makes all the basement-dwelling, welfare check-living, no-lifing cliches just screaming to get out. It is all so sad...

And then things get Grant Morrison-like weird: "there are better artists out there who don't get work". And there are also people dying of starvation in the world daily. Should the rest of us stop eating a bit more if we feel like it because of that? How is Rob Liefeld responsible for other artists not getting recognised?! He does what all other artists do, try to get a gig going. Why is it alright for other artists to try to get work, but not Liefeld? Because some people don't like him? I am either not cut out to grasp such deep thoughts or that is a bunch of nonsense. There are almost always going to be people that seek employment and don't easily find it. And that is a very sad reality. But it is how things are, and solutions to such issues come through all of the memebrs of a society banding together to adress the problem, not Rob Liefeld to stop drawing.

I don't like Rob Liefeld's work for the most part as well. Some of his past work is interesting, but still not something that I like. I actually get somewhat depressed when I force myself to go through his work. Not saying it as a euphimism. I truely start to feel like there is no point in reading comics, like all the fun is snuffed out of them. The only reason I keep checking out his work is because his style reminds me of Marc Silvestri and Jim Lee a bit, and like a moth towards a bright light, I just can't help myself but get drawn in, in his case, just for the possibility that there is some exciting image somewhere in there. However I don't bash the guy. And I don't understand the trend to talk bad about him. I just try to stay away from his work. How hard is that? How hard is, not being a jerk on a message board just because you can?

[lead sharp]

@ anyone who uses 'troll' as a lazy way to dismiss another's opinion.

You know what? I'm NOT a troll. I am a impassioned comic reader. I have the RIGHT to call out crap in something I love.

I couldn't give a flying monkeys if Superman has underpants on the outside, I don't care if Batman turns out to be gay, I actually WOULD like to see Wonder Woman in long pants but that's only a personal taste thing and ultimately, again only the fanboys care.

I DO care on the other hand that the monkey fingered git who espouses comics in one breath and dismisses them in the next, embezzles money and steals others art and ideas (look back in the early history of Image kiddies) not only STILL has people who are complacent about him but STILL finds work and STILL has a smattering of fans, go look at his website, trust me they exist. I really am sick of writers and artists and journalists either defending this UTTER cretin or worse yet having a go at the people who actually do care enough to say something. Christ Augie, have some balls and call Liefeld crap, you'll feel better.

He's not even doing any real work on the DC books, he has two inkers covering his mistakes on Deathstroke and there's no way he wrote the dialogue in Hawkman.

As an artist (not a working one but certainly trying to be) I can OBJECTIVELY say that Liefeld is a terrible 'artist'. In comics there is stylisation, Tim Sale, Kelly Jones, Jim Lee are all very stylised, leaning towards the expressive and the emotive areas of art. If someone doesn't like their work I can get that, it's just not their cup of tea, but Liefeld is not a stylised artist. he simply doesn't understand any of the basic principles of art, let alone sequential story telling, there's no 'each to their own' argument to be made, he's NOT an artist in any way shape or form.

Why do I hate Liefeld? Because I love comics.

[John Pannozzi]

I DO care on the other hand that the monkey fingered git who espouses comics in one breath and dismisses them in the next, embezzles money and steals others art and ideas (look back in the early history of Image kiddies)

Huh? I know Liefeld did a lot of swipes and ripped off a bunch of character designs/archetypes (and he's pretty copped this), but what's this about dismissing comics and embezzling money? Are you talking about how he used Image/Extreme talent/money on Maximum Press circa 1995-1996?

And the complaints about Liefeld taking work away from talented artists rings kinda hollow to me because he's hired a bunch of talented young up-and-comers to work on his relaunched Extreme Studios titles. And the fact that he has relatively little attachment to his stable characters seems to result in the talent on these books being given more creative freedom than on some of the titles over at Marvel and DC that both fans and TPTB deem too precious to meddle with.

[dancj]

@ anyone who uses 'troll' as a lazy way to dismiss another's opinion.

No-one in this thread has done that. Most have even agreed with your opinion that Leifeld is a terrible artist. The troll accusations come from following around every bit of Leifeld related new just to badmouth him.

As an artist (not a working one but certainly trying to be) I can OBJECTIVELY say that Liefeld is a terrible 'artist'. In comics there is stylisation, Tim Sale, Kelly Jones, Jim Lee are all very stylised, leaning towards the expressive and the emotive areas of art. If someone doesn't like their work I can get that, it's just not their cup of tea, but Liefeld is not a stylised artist. he simply doesn't understand any of the basic principles of art, let alone sequential story telling, there's no 'each to their own' argument to be made, he's NOT an artist in any way shape or form.

Or maybe - just maybe - they can see something in his art that you (and I) can't.

I see the same crap in every thread about All Star Batman and Robin. Personally I think it's one of the best books I've read in years, but plenty of others refuse to even accept the possibility that the book has any redeeming features.

[lead sharp]

And there are also people dying of starvation in the world daily.

I watch people die for a living, don't tell me what to get pissed off about. It's this or politics.

[lead sharp]

Completely agree that a lot of poop is flung about on threads BUT Liefeld IS actually one of those things worth getting worked up about and it drives me up the wall that so many just say 'Well don't buy his books' or 'he was good in his day' (which he clearly wasn't).

Look at The Infinite and Deathstroke, it takes TWO inkers to make his work look just bad (on Deathstroke specifically) and yet there are better artists out there who don't get work. Two of them forced to work on his garbage.

These are resources being poured into characters that people love and could indeed be great that are making them un-readable, it's a waste of talent, it's a waste of characters and it shows that DC is massively out of touch with it's audience, because people are coming round to the fact that Liefeld is bad.

I'll stop being pissed off at Liefeld when he stops making the industry look bad.

[nightwing1982]

Completely agree that a lot of poop is flung about on threads BUT Liefeld IS actually one of those things worth getting worked up about and it drives me up the wall that so many just say 'Well don't buy his books' or 'he was good in his day' (which he clearly wasn't).

Look at The Infinite and Deathstroke, it takes TWO inkers to make his work look just bad (on Deathstroke specifically) and yet there are better artists out there who don't get work. Two of them forced to work on his garbage.

These are resources being poured into characters that people love and could indeed be great that are making them un-readable, it's a waste of talent, it's a waste of characters and it shows that DC is massively out of touch with it's audience, because people are coming round to the fact that Liefeld is bad.

I'll stop being pissed off at Liefeld when he stops making the industry look bad.

Yep. Pretty much with you. It amazes me that there are a lot of talented artists that are not getting gigs OR editoral is not looking for fresh new artist that are hunrgy to draw. We get a hack...the Brett Ratner of comic books.

[PatheticNewGuy]

Ok. I guess it'll be me then.

Like polishing a turd.

[Sleepwalker42]

Liefield is a good artist. I honestly have no clue why people like to bad mouth him aside from the fact that its cool to do so. I like the traditional coloring...but on the whole, the dismissal of him as a poor artist I just don't get.

[MegaGearX]

Completely agree that a lot of poop is flung about on threads BUT Liefeld IS actually one of those things worth getting worked up about and it drives me up the wall that so many just say 'Well don't buy his books' or 'he was good in his day' (which he clearly wasn't).

But they do have a point. You could simply not read his books or not participate in threads with him as the topic. If you hate him, is it really necessary to go into every Liefeld thread or conversation to post the same message or insight?

If Liefeld was on time with all of his books instead of pursuing Hollywood and never burned a soul during his career, he would be just another artist with his own quirky style.

[spiderrmonkey]

But they do have a point. You could simply not read his books or not participate in threads with him as the topic. If you hate him, is it really necessary to go into every Liefeld thread or conversation to post the same message or insight?

If Liefeld was on time with all of his books instead of pursuing Hollywood and never burned a soul during his career, he would be just another artist with his own quirky style.

You're missing the point mentioned above. Liefeld is despised not because of his antics but because so much of his work looks lazy. Some might call that a "quirky style," but I would disagree. The reason many get so upset about him is just as it's stated above: he's getting gigs while other (non-lazy) artists aren't.

Of course, we could argue all night about him, with one side saying he sucks and the other saying otherwise, but let's let other forums do that