Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 26 of 26

Thread: Philip K. Dick

  1. #16
    Elder Member Winslow's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Posts
    13,692

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Libaax View Post
    Thats because he is in the school of social science fiction. Authors like him Ballard,Le Guin,Vance etc they dont care for techo elements.

    Although he is important precurser for cyberpunk school because he,Bester used videophones,android taxi cars,virtual worlds the like those authors like.

    I would be annoyed with lack of techno imagination if his stories wasnt mostly human relation,human condition dramas in SF form. Thats the general fiction world,critics try to take SF authors like him for their own. He didnt write what they sees as SF aka pulp space opera. Lame critics....

    Same thing with my other idol SF Jack Vance. He is worse he writes space opera with calling the space ships "space boats". He doesnt mention at all how their technology works. They are just tools to go to new planet,scene.
    That's an excellent and helpful response. Thanks.

  2. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,413

    Default Books:PKD

    Quote Originally Posted by Libaax View Post
    Thats because he is in the school of social science fiction. Authors like him Ballard,Le Guin,Vance etc they dont care for techo elements.

    Although he is important precurser for cyberpunk school because he,Bester used videophones,android taxi cars,virtual worlds the like those authors like.

    I would be annoyed with lack of techno imagination if his stories wasnt mostly human relation,human condition dramas in SF form. Thats the general fiction world,critics try to take SF authors like him for their own. He didnt write what they sees as SF aka pulp space opera. Lame critics....

    Same thing with my other idol SF Jack Vance. He is worse he writes space opera with calling the space ships "space boats". He doesnt mention at all how their technology works. They are just tools to go to new planet,scene.
    Very good breakdown of PKD and other writers who were contemporaries, especially Ballard, one of my favorites.I wonder if Vances Lyoness and subsequent novels in that group will ever get The Game Of Thrones treatment.I have got to get back to that book. I don't remember finishing it for some reason.I believe that one was High Fantasy not SF. Do you see a similar structure in the extended familys that Vances protagonists come from that are also a theme in Dune and Orson Scott Card's Homecoming Group starting with The Memory Of Earth?

  3. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,413

    Default Books:PKD

    Quote Originally Posted by Winslow View Post
    Wiki states the fiml was based on a novel of the same name by William Gibson.

    Dick died in 1982, before the internet was in use by most of the public.

    One of the things that was distracting about Dick was his lack of technical imagination. A lot of the future technology was in terms of his current understanding. For example, reel to reel tapes and vinyl albums often appear in his work.
    OOPS, wrong writer, I have even read some Gibson and didn't know there was a story by him by that name.

  4. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,413

    Default Books:PKD

    Quote Originally Posted by Winslow View Post
    Glad I included the spoiler tags.

    The Man in the High Castle was recommended as a starting point for P.K. Dick reading in the Comm thread RITA's, but it wasn't in the closest local library. It is in my library systems so I'll check it out soon.

    One of the limitations of my posting and writing ability to critique without sounding like I didn't enjoy it. I did enjoy it. I guess I went in with high expectations and they weren't met.

    Some of the other novels I read were excellent, and I'll write about them sometime this weekend.
    That's OK to be critical about aspects of PKD's work.One of the things to remember is that many of these novels were pounded out very quickly one after another for 3 cents a word or less or for miniscule, and I mean miniscule, advances that were paid by SF mags and paperback houses back then.Writers of that era were virtual indentured servants trying to make a living and some of them barely survived into the SF explosion of the late 60's. Under those conditions not everything was going to be top drawer although many of them were trying and did do their best work, ironically. It must have been the pressure.That was the way business was done at the time similar to the comics scene.I think some of the drifting plotlines may have been an aspect of the nature of Martian Time Slips theme of scattered realities. The one PKD book I was never too crazy about was UBIK.To me it was PKD later in his career in recycling mode.

  5. #20
    Elder Member Libaax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    10,636

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Winslow View Post
    Glad I included the spoiler tags.

    The Man in the High Castle was recommended as a starting point for P.K. Dick reading in the Comm thread RITA's, but it wasn't in the closest local library. It is in my library systems so I'll check it out soon.

    One of the limitations of my posting and writing ability to critique without sounding like I didn't enjoy it. I did enjoy it. I guess I went in with high expectations and they weren't met.

    Some of the other novels I read were excellent, and I'll write about them sometime this weekend.
    You did right Winslow going in with high expectations because PKD is important writer who has written many quality books and some not as great.

    I always expect alot from him and i can enjoy the low level,mid level books of his but they make respect me more books like The Man in the High Castle, The Three Stigmata of Dr.Palmer Elderitch, Now Wait for Last Year, Flow My Tears The Policeman said, Dr.Bloodmoney.

    Those are the best i have read so far. I have read 10 books of him and have many left. He was so prolific that it doesnt matter if half of the other books are not that great. Im actually surprised he could write so often,so many books and still have them be acclaimed,rated.

    Can i ask which are the other 4 PKD books you have read? The Man in the High Castle is the perfect book to read of him to read first that comm thread was right. It is not his usual style,calmer than his other but his writing is in top form.
    Pull List:
    The Walking Dead,Fatale,Near Death,Storm Dogs,Happy,BPRD,XO-Manowar
    American Vampire,Animal Man,Swamp Thing
    Daredevil, Winter Soldier,Indestructible Hulk

  6. #21
    Elder Member Winslow's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Posts
    13,692

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Libaax View Post
    Can i ask which are the other 4 PKD books you have read?
    Looks like we have some overlap. I read the following four:

    Dr. Bloodmoney or How we got along after the bomb, Now wait for last year, Flow my tears, the policeman said and Scanner darkly

    If I had to rate my enjoyment of the novels, it would be:

    1. Flow my Tears the Policeman Said
    2. Now Wait for Last Year
    3. Dr. Bloodmoney
    4. Scanner Darkly

    Scanner was an excellent novel, just depressing. Of course, it was supposed to be depressing.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Ish Kabbible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,228

    Default

    I just got done reading an old Ace double that contained the 100 page novella The Unteleported Man by Phil Dick. Enjoyable,a few great concepts like the future method of harassing those who owe money.A little weird is that it takes place in 2014 and the story has instellar space flight,robot servants and other items that are at least a century away.
    My question is: I read that late in life,Phil tried expanding this 1964 novella with another 100 pages and re-titled it Lies Inc.It was published after Phil departed with a little finishing-off touch by a different author. The review of the revision says the extra pages are basically about an LSD-type hallucinatory experience.The reviewer had an extremely low regard to that whole passage.
    Any other readers of Lies Inc to confirm or rebut?I think I have the novel version somewhere in the house and wonder if its worth reading the longer edition

  8. #23
    *choke* Dan B. in the Underworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    montgomery al
    Posts
    11,442

    Default

    The Lies Inc. version is ... interesting, though definitely not particularly successful. My understanding is that the second half is basically PKD's attempt to re-create the longer version he's written back in '65, much of which was lost over the years, though some of the orginal writing was incorporated as well.

    Is it worth reading? For a PKD obsessive like me, certainly. (Other than the last 4 or 5 posthumously published novels, as well as the second half of Lies Inc., I've read his first 36 or so novels at least twice; about half of those I've read 3 times, & the best [IMHO] 10 or so 4 times, except for the first of his I ever encountered, Time Out of Joint, for which the count is 5.) For the more casual readers, probably not.
    I tend to split superhero comics fans into "People who like Krypto" and "People who don't like Krypto."
    Basically, if you miss the wonder of a dog flying around in a little Superman cape, you're in the wrong hobby.

    -- Reptisaurus!

  9. #24
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    7,759

    Default

    I recently picked up a copy of PKD's "Exegesis", a collection of extracts from the notebooks assembled and edited by Pamela Jackson and Jonathan Lethem. Haven't started reading it seriuosly yet, but on the inside cover there's a reproduction of a crude diagram Dick drew to represent what in the accompanying text he refers to as his "meta novel":

    "Valis" is the Cypher Book - Code Book - to the whole 10-volume Meta-Novel. I will someday be read as such.
    The diagram has Valis in a central box surrounded by other boxes containing the titles of the other ten books. In clockwise order, starying from the 1:00 position:

    MitHC (Man in the High Castle, presumably)
    Eye (in the Sky?)
    Martian TS (Time-Slip)
    Tears (i.e. Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said)
    Frozen Journey (short story, not a novel, AFAIR)
    Maze (of Death)
    UBIK
    Game Players of Titan
    Joint (as in Time Out of)
    3 Stigmata (of Palmer Eldritch)

    I've read all these except for Game Players of Titan and it's striking that while they're all amongst PKD's very best books I wouldn't have connected them with VALIS, except in the sense that all PKD's stories are concerned with a certain number of ideas that recur in them over and over. Looking forward to reading all these again and later on, the Exegesis itself to see if they hit me differently in this new context.

  10. #25
    Mattress Tester T Hedge Coke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    www.futureearthmagazine.com
    Posts
    10,580

    Default

    I like Divine Invasion a lot more than VALIS, not that either is superior to the other. The levels of metaphor in DI just opens up like flames in a flower budding in flower in a field, and I dig that pretty strong. The Finnegans Wake stuff is pretty sweet, too, and the Schopenhauer.

    The goat's seduction, and minuteness, towards the end, makes me physically ill every time I reread it.

    Quote Originally Posted by berk View Post
    I've read all these except for Game Players of Titan and it's striking that while they're all amongst PKD's very best books I wouldn't have connected them with VALIS, except in the sense that all PKD's stories are concerned with a certain number of ideas that recur in them over and over. Looking forward to reading all these again and later on, the Exegesis itself to see if they hit me differently in this new context.
    There's a good deal of metaphysical and moral structures in common between them, which, presumably, means they were strongly on his mind.

    I haven't read the Exegesis (just the earlier-released excerpts), but Dick seems to take the Joycean view of the whole Eternal Return phenomenon; that it's unfair or unrequited. As opposed to Nietzsche or Heidegger finding more comfort in it.

  11. #26
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    7,759

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T Hedge Coke View Post
    I like Divine Invasion a lot more than VALIS, not that either is superior to the other. The levels of metaphor in DI just opens up like flames in a flower budding in flower in a field, and I dig that pretty strong. The Finnegans Wake stuff is pretty sweet, too, and the Schopenhauer.

    The goat's seduction, and minuteness, towards the end, makes me physically ill every time I reread it.



    There's a good deal of metaphysical and moral structures in common between them, which, presumably, means they were strongly on his mind.

    I haven't read the Exegesis (just the earlier-released excerpts), but Dick seems to take the Joycean view of the whole Eternal Return phenomenon; that it's unfair or unrequited. As opposed to Nietzsche or Heidegger finding more comfort in it.
    I read The Divine Invasion and Radio Free Albemuth not long after having read VALIS and they didn't make nearly the same impression on me as did that book, which was probably one of the most powerful reading experiences of my life. I think they might have worked better for me if I'd read them first, because I found VALIS was so very raw and personal that the other, perhaps more literary, re-imagined/examined, and worked-over treatments of those ideas and events, seemed to pale in comparison.

    I hadn't read Finnegans Wake or Schopenhauer at the time and, to be honest, don't recall the references to them in The Divine Invasion, which I haven't looked at since that first reading back in the late 70s or early 80s. But I'm hoping to read or re-read a lot of PKD sometime down the road, so I look forward to seeing if they strike me differently after all these years.

    (edit) BTW, haven't read enough Heidegger to know what he said about the Eternal Return, but I think Nietzsche would have taken issue with the word "comfort".
    Last edited by berk; 12-27-2013 at 11:29 PM.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •