The Bad Guys of AvX?

[RDMacQ]

Cap was told that the Avengers action would kill the mutants on the moon, He was told the PF was the mutants last hope on the beach

And the writer confirmed Hope wasn't ready and would have destroyed the planet.

As he stated- just because it worked out doesn't mean it couldn't have worked out a better way.

[RDMacQ]

Another example of how Editorial doesn't know what the frak it's doing, or doesn't care.

The PF is NOT automatically about death and destruction. That is a modern miswrite of the entity. The PF is also a benevolent force for good, as when it helped heal the M'krann crystal and stop D'ken.

It was in this story.

You disagree? Feel it goes against the history? Fine. Dislike that aspect of the story.

Doesn't mean that the characters are lying or the comic told another story when it didn't. But this story and the creator stated the Phoenix would have destroyed the world if the heroes did everything Scott wanted.

[XPac]

Another example of how Editorial doesn't know what the frak it's doing, or doesn't care.

The PF is NOT automatically about death and destruction. That is a modern miswrite of the entity. The PF is also a benevolent force for good, as when it helped heal the M'krann crystal and stop D'ken.

In Phoenixs very first story it went nuts in it's host after going dark and caused death and destruction. This wasn't all that different in a lot of ways. The point was that Hope couldn't control the Phoenix at the time (like Jean couldn't control it).

But with the help of the Avengers, she DID learn ton control it and was able to do good with it.

So I think in the end there was a definate balance there.

[Mark_S]

Right there. From the people that write and edit the books. You better believe those will be ignored by a few.

Do we then have to go to the interviews as well as buying the books to get the full story?

[Mark_S]

He did meet with Tony one on one to talk. Well talk and spar. Nothing was resolved but they were at least grown up enough to meet and and make their cases to each other. It was a better move than scream and blast method of communication.

True, they did talk because they both met at the ruins of Avengers Mansion without it being a trap or showing up with an army. Steve didn't give Scott that same chance.

[XPac]

Do we then have to go to the interviews as well as buying the books to get the full story?

For most people , no. Because Hope flat out states right there during the scene, and afterwards, that she couldn't control the Phoenix. For MOST people, that's enough.

Interviews and such are mostly for that 1% of comic readers that essentially need everything spelled out for them.

[RDMacQ]

Do we then have to go to the interviews as well as buying the books to get the full story?

Given the fact that a lot of this discussion is based on people not accepting the events in the written story and making up their own narrative, then yes.

[R0NIN]

It was in this story.

You disagree? Feel it goes against the history? Fine. Dislike that aspect of the story.

Doesn't mean that the characters are lying or the comic told another story when it didn't. But this story and the creator stated the Phoenix would have destroyed the world if the heroes did everything Scott wanted.

Exactly. Avengers were right. Cyclops was wrong. Had things happened as Cyclops originally wanted (they just let Hope get possessed as soon as the Phoenix showed up) the PF would've destroyed the world. Hope even said it.

[CJStriker]

Exactly. Avengers were right. Cyclops was wrong. Had things happened as Cyclops originally wanted (they just let Hope get possessed as soon as the Phoenix showed up) the PF would've destroyed the world. Hope even said it.

In the End it amounted to Playing "Russian Roulette" with Every Living Thing on the Earth. I understand that Summers wanted to restart the mutant gene (He had the Cure in Children's Crusade with Scarlet Witch, but said NO cause he let his emotions Cloud is logical judgement, way to go Summers), but was WAY Over the Top to take the Greatest risk to the planet their can be, Total life Destruction!

He should have worked with Captain America and Meet the Phoenix in space, it would have at least been better then meeting it on the Earth at least. I mean the 616 Universe has Space Ships that can easy travel the Planets like we travel in Cars, it was really not that hard to consider that you would think.

[XPac]

Exactly. Avengers were right. Cyclops was wrong. Had things happened as Cyclops originally wanted (they just let Hope get possessed as soon as the Phoenix showed up) the PF would've destroyed the world. Hope even said it.

And this is why you sometimes have creators needing to come online to explain stuff.

Comics will often convey exposition using characters. But sometimes a poster will argue that a character is mistaken, or flat out lying. And that's when you need an editor or writer to claffy. As a crude hypothetical example:

Iron Man in his book: Coke Zero has zero calories.

Poster X on the CBR: Iron Man is LYING!

Tom Breevort on Formspring: No, Iron Man isn't lying. In the Marvel Universe, Coke Zero has zero calories.

Poster X on the CBR: Tom Breevort is LYING!

That's just how it is on the internet. Nothing you can do.

[CJStriker]

One Thing I don't Like in the end with AvX is that both Summers at the beginning and the Writers at the end of the Series said that The Phoenix came back to restart the mutant gene. The thing I don't get is that when it was on its way why in the process of restarting 1 species of Humans on a planet does it have to go and destroy other planets on the way?

Also, if that was it's intent, why did it make itself so hard for Hope to control, you think it being an all divine Cosmic Being that some believed it was that it would try to make itself easier to control for the sake of the mutants. Finally, when the P5 where born and it is believed that the Phoenix was influencing thier actions, why did it not just lead to to restart the gene or at least been saying to them in whispering influence "Restart Mutants, Restart Mutants, Restart Mutants, Restart Mutants, Restart Mutants, Restart Mutants, Restart Mutants." Instead they where creating "Pax Utopia" at the UN and saving the spotted bug or some species on the planet, but not their own?

Sorry, but those where some BIG Plot Holes in the story to me. I have my theories to them as well, but still seems like Big Plot Holes.

[MagSeven]

Except Cap never mentioned the Phoenix heading for Earth or acting to protect the world. All he mentioned was taking Hope, regardless of their wishes.

From issue 1

Cap: We need to take Hope into protective custody
Cyke : Because...
Cap: The Phoenix Force is headed to Earth and all our experts feel its headed towards her.

later Cap says "There's a destructive force headed to Earth and we need to find a way to stop it"

I don't have a scanner so I cant scan the exchange, but I suggest you re-read the issue. Cap absolutely mentions the Phoenix heading to Earth and Destruction.

[XPac]

From issue 1

Cap: We need to take Hope into protective custody
Cyke : Because...
Cap: The Phoenix Force is headed to Earth and all our experts feel its headed towards her.

later Cap says "There's a destructive force headed to Earth and we need to find a way to stop it"

I don't have a scanner so I cant scan the exchange, but I suggest you re-read the issue. Cap absolutely mentions the Phoenix heading to Earth and Destruction.

Here ya go.



I also sort of like now Namor states that Scott forced Rogers hand, because some would argue the reverse.

[MagSeven]

Here ya go.



I also sort of like now Namor states that Scott forced Rogers hand, because some would argue the reverse.

Thanks for the scan!

[Mark_S]

Here ya go.



I also sort of like now Namor states that Scott forced Rogers hand, because some would argue the reverse.

The way it was written was pretty open, as probably intended. Cap's coming from a place of pure panic -which is strange considering how many other times a destructive force has been headed toward Earth- and Scott is simply angry and arrogant enough to think that he can handle it and he resents Cap showing up with the army. It had to have been this badly written or the mini couldn't have gone forward. Cap needed to act like a bully -as She-Hulk would do later to force Rogue into action- and Scott had to act like a fool.