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  1. #5281
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    The only Avenger that wanted to kill Hope was Wolverine. Captain America was clearly against that... he threw Logan out of a plane for doing that.
    regardless steve's personal feelings, the avengers would have assassinated her there. they were acting as a team on that mission, and wolverine's agenda was clear. captain america was assisting him.

  2. #5282
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    regardless steve's personal feelings, the avengers would have assassinated her there. they were acting as a team on that mission, and wolverine's agenda was clear. captain america was assisting him.
    Cap flat out told Logan he wouldn't allow him to just kill Hope. Right before he threw Logan out of the plane. If you want to just ignore what the book flat out states that's your call, but it doesn't change the fact that this is what the book states.

  3. #5283
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Cap flat out told Logan he wouldn't allow him to just kill Hope. Right before he threw Logan out of the plane. If you want to just ignore what the book flat out states that's your call, but it doesn't change the fact that this is what the book states.
    that was a different mission. i know it must be easy for you to get them confused. on the moon mission, steve did everything he could to keep the x-men from getting to hope before wolverine could murder her. facts are facts.

  4. #5284
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    that was a different mission. i know it must be easy for you to get them confused. on the moon mission, steve did everything he could to keep the x-men from getting to hope before wolverine could murder her. facts are facts.
    Facts are facts... and the fact is on the moon Cap told Cyclops he wanted to take Hope and get her out of there. That's what he flat out said his agenda was. If you want to just ignore what the book flat out states thats your call, but it doesn't change the fact that this is what the book states.

  5. #5285
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    lol on the moon, steve was fighting the x-men while wolverine was performing an assassination attempt. it doesn't really matter what steve is saying while he's doing it.

  6. #5286
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    thank god the x-men were there to save hope from that madman and his accomplices.

  7. #5287
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    lol on the moon, steve was fighting the x-men while wolverine was performing an assassination attempt. it doesn't really matter what steve is saying while he's doing it.
    The part you're simply not getting (which I think the previous books and author interviews established pretty well) was that Wolverine had a seperate agenda at that point in the story from both Scott and Steve.

    Steve, Logan, and Scott at that point were all trying to do different things... and the book flat out states this. Steve was trying to take custody of Hope, while the X-Men were trying to stop him. Logan tried killing Hope when she started losing control, and Scott in turn stopped Logan.

    Again, if you're confused about who is trying to do what, all you need to do is read what the characters are actually saying. That's why we have dialogue in comics. It's there to help you interpret the pretty pictures. Here... let me do something that you can't do. Provide actual evidence from the actual book showing what I'm saying.

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    The dialogue flat out states that Steve is there to take custody of Hope and get her out of there. Again, if you want to just ignore what the book flat out states thats your call, but it doesn't change the fact that this is what the book states.

  8. #5288
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    it doesn't matter what the dialogue states. actions speak louder than words. why is steve telling cyclops he has to "stop this?" cyclops is the one with multiple stab wounds in his body. his only crime? getting between wolverine and hope.

    if steve really had a problem with child murder, he would have been fighting wolverine and not the x-men. it's a comic book, not a novel. you have to look at the pictures too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Up to that point, this was merely 2 super hero teams fighting. No one was killed. The scale of the conflict was limited to really just a few dozen super heroes punching it out.
    Cyke was fighting for the surviulof his race, the X-men were fighting to stop him,Those stakes make it a war. If the Avenger orfginal plans had worked the mutants would become extinct in one generation, It was not only a war but an existential war
    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Namor was the one that chose to escalate things be involving Altantis and Wakanda into actual conflcit by invading a country and committing mass murder. Things didn't need to go to that level, and I don't think anyone aside from Namor wanted to.
    SIri and BP brought the Wakanda into the conflict by providing a bases for attacks to one side and holding someone POW from the other side. If Wakanda has stayed out of the fight no Wakadans would have been hurt.
    Pain shared is divided, joy shared is multiplied

  10. #5290
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    it doesn't matter what the dialogue states. actions speak louder than words. why is steve telling cyclops he has to "stop this?" cyclops is the one with multiple stab wounds in his body. his only crime? getting between wolverine and hope.

    if steve really had a problem with child murder, he would have been fighting wolverine and not the x-men. it's a comic book, not a novel. you have to look at the pictures too.
    Steve is telling Cyclops to stop this, because Steve wants to take custody of Hope (like he said) and Cyclops is trying to stop him.

    At NO POINT does Steve say he wants to kill Hope. But he DOES flat out state he doesn't want Logan doing it. You ignoring that doesn't change what the book actually states.

  11. #5291
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    The only Avenger that wanted to kill Hope was Wolverine. Captain America was clearly against that... he threw Logan out of a plane for doing that.
    Cap did nothing after the attack on the moon, so how was he he against that attack? Wolverine tryeded to murder her twice and is still welcome. D Does attempted murder of a teen call for a three days suspension the first time and become acceptable the second time?
    Pain shared is divided, joy shared is multiplied

  12. #5292
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Cap flat out told Logan he wouldn't allow him to just kill Hope. Right before he threw Logan out of the plane. If you want to just ignore what the book flat out states that's your call, but it doesn't change the fact that this is what the book states.
    What about the second murder attempt?
    Pain shared is divided, joy shared is multiplied

  13. #5293
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Steve is telling Cyclops to stop this, because Steve wants to take custody of Hope (like he said) and Cyclops is trying to stop him.

    At NO POINT does Steve say he wants to kill Hope. But he DOES flat out state he doesn't want Logan doing it. You ignoring that doesn't change what the book actually states.
    Cap had no trouble with Wolverine trying to murder Hope the second time,
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  14. #5294
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikekerrIII View Post
    Cyke was fighting for the surviulof his race, the X-men were fighting to stop him,Those stakes make it a war. If the Avenger orfginal plans had worked the mutants would become extinct in one generation, It was not only a war but an existential war
    SIri and BP brought the Wakanda into the conflict by providing a bases for attacks to one side and holding someone POW from the other side. If Wakanda has stayed out of the fight no Wakadans would have been hurt.
    Murdering innocent Wakandans doesn't help the survival of the mutant race.

    Even the X-Men realized that. It's why Namors attack got many of them to realize they were fighting on the wrong side. They realized what you perhaps don't... that it simply wasn't necessary to murder all those innocent people. It didn't help their cause... if anything it hurt it by turning people who rightly oppose mass murder against them.

  15. #5295
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikekerrIII View Post
    Cap did nothing after the attack on the moon, so how was he he against that attack? Wolverine tryeded to murder her twice and is still welcome. D Does attempted murder of a teen call for a three days suspension the first time and become acceptable the second time?
    Steve couldn't do anything to stop Logan if he wanted to, because he was down on the floor when Wolverine went after Hope. After that one point, Logan spent the rest of the scene fighting Cyclops so Steve never had to stop Logan from doing it.

    And I find it a little ironic you're criticizing the attempted mass murder of a willing teen in the same thread you're trying to defend mass murder.
    Last edited by XPac; 01-17-2013 at 07:39 AM.

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