The Bad Guys of AvX?

[xxvaderxx]

I don't think Steve killed anyone, so I'm not sure where you're coming from there.

He did discuss and work with people that had experience with the Phoenix (Logan and Beast... and Captain Britian was working with the Avengers as well), and he did come up with multiple plans. He had the Secret Avengers off in space trying to contain the Phoenix, while the main force was trying to evacuate Hope from the planet, with Starks Phoenix buster as their hail mary.

As far as finding a middle ground with Scott... perhaps that might have happened had Scott not shot at Steve 2 minutes into the conversation. We'll never know, because Scott decided to start a fight rather than try and negotiate.

No he did not murder xavier, he just pulled the pins of every grenade he could get his hands on and was surprised when one blew up in his face. He is like a child throwing a fit, because he just has to have that toy.

Han Solo shot first as well, you are going to tell me you would not have done the same?. Again if Cap wanted to talk he would have gone alone, and everybody knows this. I seriously cant even imagine how can you pass invading some ones home with an army as a "good gesture will". "No" is also a possible outcome of a negotiation, if he was not willing to take no for an answer then he did not go there to negotiate and the Xmen did right in defending them selves.

In fact if anything, if you have an argument with cap and he shows up at your door, this shows you should actually shot him, chances are he had a sniper aiming at your head from the start.

[XPac]

No he did not murder xavier, he just pulled the pins of every grenade he could get his hands on and was surprised when one blew up in his face. He is like a child throwing a fit, because he just has to have that toy.

Han Solo shot first as well, you are going to tell me you would not have done the same?. Again if Cap wanted to talk he would have gone alone, and everybody knows this. I seriously cant even imagine how can you pass invading some ones home with an army as a "good gesture will". "No" is also a possible outcome of a negotiation, if he was not willing to take no for an answer then he did not go there to negotiate and the Xmen did right in defending them selves.

In fact if anything, if you have an argument with cap and he shows up at your door, this shows you should actually shot him, chances are he had a sniper aiming at your head from the start.

No, I would have not done the same. At least not 2 minutes into the conversation. It's fine to disagree with Steve, but firing on him before at least trying to find some sort of middle ground IMO wasn't a smart idea. Hell, at least ask Hope how she feels about it. She was perfectly willing to leave with the Avengers the second time they came for her... maybe she would have been willing the first time too.

The thing is, Steve was willing to work with the X-Men. He flat out told Logan at the very start of AvX that he wanted to work with Scott and the X-Men to resolve this matter. It was Scott that didn't want to work with the Avengers... he flat out called this mutant business. The problem being that in this particular situation, people on the Avengers side of things were needed to resolve the situation. In fact, you can make the arguement the ONLY X-Men that Cap ended up needing was Hope... the rest at the end were just sort of extra muscle. Once Hope sided with the Avengers, they really had all the pieces they needed to resolve this (Hope, Wanda, Iron Fist, Spider-Man, Iron Man)... they just needed some time for Stark to figure it out.

But in the end, Hope and frankly all the rest of the X-Men ended up joining up with the Avengers, so it all worked out. In a perfect world they would have done that earlier, but in the least they got there in the end.

[stussyjones]

Just heard the Interview again and feel sorry for Nick Lowre having to deal with Brevort

[xxvaderxx]

The thing is, Steve was willing to work with the X-Men. He flat out told Logan at the very start of AvX that he wanted to work with Scott and the X-Men to resolve this matter. It was Scott that didn't want to work with the Avengers... he flat out called this mutant business.

Glad to know Caps first response to crises is to follow the plans of known killers and murder teenage girls. Because that is was Wolverine was set to do from Minute 0. Regarding this considering a Mutant issue, this is what like the 3rd or fourth time this would have been considered a mutant issue?, earth was still spinning so my guess is that approached had worked so far. Why is it so difficult for Avengers Fans to admit Rogers did not have a plan and what he did was a belligerent knee jerk reaction at best?. And also regarding his and shields willingness to work with mutants, we do remember Wolverine (his adviser) getting jettisoned out a shield jet mid flight dont we?.

[XPac]

Glad to know Caps first response to crises is to follow the plans of known killers and murder teenage girls. Because that is was Wolverine was set to do from Minute 0. Regarding this considering a Mutant issue, this is what like the 3rd or fourth time this would have been considered a mutant issue?, earth was still spinning so my guess is that approached had worked so far. Why is it so difficult for Avengers Fans to admit Rogers did not have a plan and what he did was a belligerent knee jerk reaction at best?.

The problem being that it wouldn't have worked this time because again the situation needed people on the Avengers side of the fence to assist Hope. It's why Hope essentially HAD to leave the X-Men and join up with the Avengers to resolve the situation. As much as some X-readers might have wanted marvel to tell a story where the Avengers were completely unecessary and Scott was 100% right, obviously marvel wasn't going to do that. This was a team up with both teams requiring both teams in the end to work together to resolve the problem. And that's what happened. Hope joined up with the Avengers, followed by the rest of the X-Men, and together they ended up saving the world.

[Mark_S]

The problem being that it wouldn't have worked this time because again the situation needed people on the Avengers side of the fence to assist Hope. It's why Hope essentially HAD to leave the X-Men and join up with the Avengers to resolve the situation. As much as some X-readers might have wanted marvel to tell a story where the Avengers were completely unecessary and Scott was 100% right, obviously marvel wasn't going to do that. This was a team up with both teams requiring both teams in the end to work together to resolve the problem. And that's what happened. Hope joined up with the Avengers, followed by the rest of the X-Men, and together they ended up saving the world.

Temporarily. It'll be in peril again sooner rather than later.

[Kurolegacy]

Glad to know Caps first response to crises is to follow the plans of known killers and murder teenage girls. Because that is was Wolverine was set to do from Minute 0. Regarding this considering a Mutant issue, this is what like the 3rd or fourth time this would have been considered a mutant issue?, earth was still spinning so my guess is that approached had worked so far. Why is it so difficult for Avengers Fans to admit Rogers did not have a plan and what he did was a belligerent knee jerk reaction at best?.

While Logan is an established killer, he's also a long established hero who has just as much experience dealing with the Phoenix as Scott does thus he's just as reliable of a source to ask about it as Scott. You paint him as being some sort of psychopath nutjob. Also it was never Steve's plan to kill Hope. That much was a secret plan from Wolverine following an agreement he had with Hope and once Steve found out about it, he sidelined Wolverine.

And while you say that Steve had no plan, what about Scott? It was shown that his training method didn't work to help Hope. What was his grand plan in the event she went out of control since she wasn't ready for this? Couldn't have been all that effective considering that we were flat out told by Gillan that had Cyclops had things his way, the Earth would have been destroyed. You claim that Avengers fans can't accept that Steve didn't have a full plan yet I don't see you calling out X-Fans on failing to admit that Cyclops wasn't completely right like they claim him to be.

[Mark_S]

Any sort of calm, rational talk would have made AVX impossible to write. They had to force the conflict and I think there were bad guys sprinkled on both sides. This is marvel, no one is really the good guy for long.

[AcesX1X]

Just heard the Interview again and feel sorry for Nick Lowre having to deal with Brevort

yea it's amazing how he managed to mangle this up on both sides. and seeing avenger fans argue his story despite the evidence is quite frankly nauseating.

[Hariel0079]

While Logan is an established killer, he's also a long established hero who has just as much experience dealing with the Phoenix as Scott does thus he's just as reliable of a source to ask about it as Scott. You paint him as being some sort of psychopath nutjob. Also it was never Steve's plan to kill Hope. That much was a secret plan from Wolverine following an agreement he had with Hope and once Steve found out about it, he sidelined Wolverine.

And while you say that Steve had no plan, what about Scott? It was shown that his training method didn't work to help Hope. What was his grand plan in the event she went out of control since she wasn't ready for this? Couldn't have been all that effective considering that we were flat out told by Gillan that had Cyclops had things his way, the Earth would have been destroyed. You claim that Avengers fans can't accept that Steve didn't have a full plan yet I don't see you calling out X-Fans on failing to admit that Cyclops wasn't completely right like they claim him to be.

^^^^THIS whole heartily

They never will, you can break down the event to a tee and still act as if it's being spun and contrived.

[USERNAME TAKEN]

I can't wait for the next issue of AvX so all this arguing will stop.

Lol..........

[yanapryde]

[Juggernaut Punch]

Aunt May begs to differ. Besides, what did you got out of civil war? Hammer, War on Asgard, A planetary invasion, all as a direct consequence of Stark winning the war. Civil was is one of the most pro fascist government agenda comic Marvel pulled out since i can remember, and i was around when the Pentagon started paying for "advertisement and propaganda" on the X titles and Avengers. Im really surprised "Reg guys were right" is what most people got out of it.

If you'd have read the other half of my post, you'd have realised I was saying the opposite. The writers intended for the registration side to be the heroes, but the writing didn't make that come across at all. They were the heroes of that as much as the Avengers were the heroes of AvX (not really).

[XPac]

^^^^THIS whole heartily

They never will, you can break down the event to a tee and still act as if it's being spun and contrived.

I do sort of find that whole "Scott was right" mentality funny in that regard.

Yes, he was right about one specific aspect of the story... and he was frankly WRONG about some as well. And you can essentially say that about almost anyone in the story. I don't at all fault him for being happy about the mutant gene being restored, but I think they way he puts himself on a pedistol just comes off weird to me. I think he's starting to sip a bit too much of his own Kool Aid. But that's frankly the direction I think the character has been moving towards for years... and it's frankly a lot more interesting than the boy scout Scott (who I frankly found pretty dull a lot of the time). So I'm cool with it overall.

[xxvaderxx]

I think he's starting to sip a bit too much of his own Kool Aid. But that's frankly the direction I think the character has been moving towards for years... and it's frankly a lot more interesting than the boy scout Scott (who I frankly found pretty dull a lot of the time). So I'm cool with it overall.

Actually he is trully selfless, that is what makes him so dangerous to the Shield and Cap apparatus, at the end of the day, unlike Erik, Scott does want a better world for both Mutants and Humans and he will die for his Ideals. He is a selfless true believer, which are always the most dangerous.