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  1. #4306
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apathy Lad View Post
    The Karate Kid bullcrap is the equivalent of Age of Ultron ending with Foggy Nelson and Howard the Duck jumping in and saving the day.
    If some people didn't like it, then some people didn't like it. The point is that this is what the story tells us. Not liking something doesn't make it untrue.

  2. #4307
    Few days on drugs? Lovely pepper's Avatar
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    Carrying buckets of water prepares you for the Phoenix. It's canon. Deal

  3. #4308
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pepper View Post
    Carrying buckets of water prepares you for the Phoenix. It's canon. Deal
    Well, it certainly seems more effective than the hair brushing regiment Hope seems to have been undergoing on Utopia prior to her leaving.

  4. #4309
    Sentinels were right chakal's Avatar
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    Bad Guys of AvX? The Architects, or the guys who wrote this mess.
    Say No to decompressed storytelling!

    Bellechere for the win!!!

    European Union: XXI Century New USSR
    I am anti-EU

  5. #4310
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    There were ways for utilizing the Phoenix for good and avoiding corruption... that's essentially what we got at the end of the story. By the end of the story, because of the training Hope got from the Avengers, Hope was able to do good with the Phoenix by fixing the damage Dark Phoenix caused before releasing it's power and restarting the mutant gene.

    The key to the problem was that Hope needed certain things to control the Phoenix... and that's an aspect of the story Scott wasn't aware of. You can't even really blame him for not knowing that... really, how could he? But the bottom line is that Scott made his share of mistakes based on a lack of knowledge of the situation, same as everyone else. But in the end Hope got the help she needed, the world was saved, and it worked out great for everyone.
    the fact of the matter is that the established head x-men editor has publicly voiced his disapproval of the whole affair. that holds a lot more worth regarding the x-men than some avenger editor who repeatedly displays he has no idea what he is talking about regarding the x-men or their mythos.

  6. #4311
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    the fact of the matter is that the established head x-men editor has publicly voiced his disapproval of the whole affair. that holds a lot more worth regarding the x-men than some avenger editor who repeatedly displays he has no idea what he is talking about regarding the x-men or their mythos.
    Out of curiosity, what did he say?

  7. #4312
    Quickkill GM DiceRoll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chakal View Post
    Bad Guys of AvX? The Architects, or the guys who wrote this mess.
    I like this one.

  8. #4313
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Out of curiosity, what did he say?
    he said that hope getting trained with water buckets and spider-man was the stupidest thing he's ever heard of and made jason aaron apologize for writing it in person. tom brevoort was also present and did not comment.

    you can listen to it here: http://marvel.com/news/story/19571/d...avx_special_10

  9. #4314
    Veteran Member Juggernaut Punch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Well, it certainly seems more effective than the hair brushing regiment Hope seems to have been undergoing on Utopia prior to her leaving.


    Thats one hell of a hair brushing regiment.

    And the villains of AvX were the X-Men. Just like the villains of Civil War were the Anti-Reg guys. And the villain of World War Hulk was the Hulk.

    Works in theory, until the "villains" end up completely and utterly sympathetic and the "heroes" end up being massive assholes who were wrong about everything.

  10. #4315
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut Punch View Post


    Thats one hell of a hair brushing regiment.

    And the villains of AvX were the X-Men. Just like the villains of Civil War were the Anti-Reg guys. And the villain of World War Hulk was the Hulk.

    Works in theory, until the "villains" end up completely and utterly sympathetic and the "heroes" end up being massive assholes who were wrong about everything.
    If Scotts training regiment was essentially designed to drive Hope away, then I'll definately say it ended up quite effective. Though I suppose in a lot of ways you can argue Hope leaving was essentially what needed to happen, so in a weird way I guess that is sort of what needed to happen.

    But I don't agree the X-Men were the villains of AvX. Unlike Civil War, at the end of AvX we see both the Avengers and X-Men coming together save the world. They were ALL heroes there.

    As far as one side or the other being symathetic... any AvX thread will clearly show that both Avengers and X-Men got their fair share of critics and supporters. And that was exactly what they were going for, so in that front I think they accomplished what they wanted.

  11. #4316
    Hex Magic Nemesis@'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chakal View Post
    Bad Guys of AvX? The Architects, or the guys who wrote this mess.
    I fully agree

  12. #4317

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    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut Punch View Post

    And the villains of AvX were the X-Men. Just like the villains of Civil War were the Anti-Reg guys.
    Aunt May begs to differ. Besides, what did you got out of civil war? Hammer, War on Asgard, A planetary invasion, all as a direct consequence of Stark winning the war. Civil was is one of the most pro fascist government agenda comic Marvel pulled out since i can remember, and i was around when the Pentagon started paying for "advertisement and propaganda" on the X titles and Avengers. Im really surprised "Reg guys were right" is what most people got out of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    As far as one side or the other being symathetic... any AvX thread will clearly show that both Avengers and X-Men got their fair share of critics and supporters. And that was exactly what they were going for, so in that front I think they accomplished what they wanted.
    To me they didnt, they forced a "Vs" title out of making the Avengers belligerent goons that cornered forced the X-Men hand every chance they got, with no plan of what to do next after they overpowered the X-men. Because like ir not, "taking some one into protective custody" is not actually a plan on how to deal with an intergalactic power that be.
    Last edited by xxvaderxx; 11-27-2012 at 09:28 AM.

  13. #4318
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxvaderxx View Post
    Aunt May begs to differ. Besides, what did you got out of civil war? Hammer, War on Asgard, A planetary invasion, all as a direct consequence of Stark winning the war. Civil was is one of the most pro fascist government agenda comic Marvel pulled out since i can remember, and i was around when the Pentagon started paying for "advertisement and propaganda" on the X titles and Avengers. Im really surprised "Reg guys were right" is what most people got out of it.
    I think the pro-reg guys were wrong about a lot of things during Civil War, and anyone who was around the Avengers during Civil War will tell you I was as vocal as anyone else about a lot of it.

    But being wrong about some things doesn't necessarily make you a "villain" or the "bad guy." There's a difference.

    I think in both Civil War and AvX, I think it's more than fair to argue both sides made some mistakes and both sides had defensible positions. The fact that there was so much debate among posters clearly demonstred that. And UNLIKE Civil War, I think what AvX did was show the Avengers and X-Men putting aside their differences and working together in the end to save the world, which really emphasized the point about neither team being the bad guys. It's part of the reason why the Avengers and X-Men are working together as we speak.. in the end they all want the same thing, and needed to work together to accomplish that.

  14. #4319

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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    But being wrong about some things doesn't necessarily make you a "villain" or the "bad guy." There's a difference.
    Apparently for Scot Rogers it would come down to how many people you kill in the process, you know, the good old "1 millon you are a conqueror, 1 person you are an assassin", which oh by the way happened again in a situation he forced.

    How to Avoid it:
    1- Do your research.
    2- Ask the guys with actual experience on the subject. (other than the known killer and the terminally ill, pump on drugs mad scientist).
    3- Come up with an actual plan. Like what do you actually plan to do with Hope.
    4- Propose to Summers a middle ground compromise (this is kind of what the guy takes and makes work for a living) like for the girl to meet the PF in deep space.
    5- Do not invade the home of the people you should be asking to help you(and no, "Give me your wallet" is not the same as "asking for change").

    That aside, i would have loved for Summers to get gutted in Jail, but i will take him starting his movement as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    he said that hope getting trained with water buckets and spider-man was the stupidest thing he's ever heard of and made jason aaron apologize for writing it in person. tom brevoort was also present and did not comment.

    you can listen to it here: http://marvel.com/news/story/19571/d...avx_special_10
    Will listen to it this afternoon, i am not surprised the editor was pissed if he was forced to publish this half cooked garbage that painted the Avengers as armed goons, thou i dont imagine they would go that openly about it.
    Last edited by xxvaderxx; 11-27-2012 at 09:46 AM.

  15. #4320
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxvaderxx View Post
    Apparently for Scot Rogers it would come down to how many people you kill in the process, you know, the good old "1 millon you are a conqueror, 1 person you are an assassin", which oh by the way happened again in a situation he forced.

    How to Avoid it:
    1- Do your research.
    2- Ask the guys with actual experience on the subject.
    3- Come up with a plan.
    4- Propose to Summers a middle ground compromise (this is kind of what the guy takes and makes work for a living) like for the girl to meet the PF in deep space.
    5- Do not invade the home of the people you should be asking to help you(and no, "Give me your wallet" is not the same as "asking for change").
    I don't think Steve killed anyone, so I'm not sure where you're coming from there.

    He did discuss and work with people that had experience with the Phoenix (Logan and Beast... and Captain Britian was working with the Avengers as well), and he did come up with multiple plans. He had the Secret Avengers off in space trying to contain the Phoenix, while the main force was trying to evacuate Hope from the planet, with Starks Phoenix buster as their hail mary.

    As far as finding a middle ground with Scott... perhaps that might have happened had Scott not shot at Steve 2 minutes into the conversation. We'll never know, because Scott decided to start a fight rather than try and negotiate.

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