General Opinion On Dial H?(No Spoilers)

[Flashpoint]

I honestly think that's more a problem with your reading than Mieville's writing. The subtleties here were no more or less subtle than Gaiman's allegorical work on Sandman, or Moore's work on Swamp Thing, which you seem to cite as 'appropriate'. The difference is that you read one issue rather than TPB's. I read the issue in about 10 or 15 minutes, and it was very obvious that the smokey hero came out after he was talking about his smoking addiction or that the sad hero came out after he was feeling sorry for himself.

You are, of course, welcome to your opinion, but I don't think you can blame a book because you didn't read it more thoroughly.

My reading comprehension skills are fine, thank you very much. I do not appreciate you maligning my ability to read. I neither implied nor did I outright fault anyone for liking and enjoying the book. Please don't put me down simply because I disliked a book that you enjoyed. That's uncalled for.

Going back to Neil Gaiman and Alan Moore, I strongly disagree. Swamp Thing #21 is a perfect example of exactly what I mean--and I read that book as a single issue at the original time of first publication all the way back in 1984. I did not read it as a trade paperback. You do your own arguments a big disservice when you jump to conclusions and make assumptions about what I read and how I read.

"The Anatomy Lesson" had plenty of shocks and also plenty of subtle elements as well. But what was most shocking was how powerful the story was immediately and the huge impact of Moore's outstanding craft as a storyteller with just one issue. Now, I'm not implying Mieville isn't a talented storyteller in his own right. What I am saying is that his first issue of Dial H has failed to win similar universal acclaim and hit readers with an equally powerful impact as that book. Nor did it pack even the same undeniable punch as Gaiman's very first issue of Sandman.

Mieville is an accomplished author with obvious skill. But in terms of comic book storytelling, my own experience with his first comic book is that it hasn't been the grand slam hit that either Swamp Thing #21 or Sandman #1 were. Reviews have been generally positive, but they haven't been out-and-out raves like the reviews were for "The Anatomy Lesson" nor has there been the kind of buzz on the book like there was with Gaiman's Sandman. Reaction from fans has been decidedly mixed as we can clearly see by the wide spectrum of reactions here in this very thread.

Lastly, whether an element of plot or characterization is "obvious" is indeed a matter of opinion. However, the definition of what is considered obvious to the majority of readers is a little easier to narrow down. Again, "The Anatomy Lesson" is a perfect example of this. Lemire's Animal Man #1 was also quite obvious in its successful connection with readers based on rave reviews, immediate sellouts and skyrocketing back issue prices. Dial H hasn't had anywhere near that kind of obvious success by any measure--sales, reviews or online reaction.

LOL, we are in the middle of a depression. Greece is looking to drop the Euro and is on horrible austerity terms, the economies of europe are in shambles, JP Morgan - the most conservative, responsible, successful investment bank of the depression thus far - just revealed that, thanks to mismanagement, they are down 2 billion in trading. Things are still quite bad, even if they are getting better.

Here we start to get into that messy gray area where comic book stories end and personal political views or views on economics begin. Stories on Greece today weren't quite as apocalyptic as they were a couple of days ago. JP Morgan Chase was colossally stupid and irresponsible, but their individual loss is nowhere near on the scale of the September 2008 economic meltdown. It's not even anywhere in the same vicinity as AIG's catastrophic failures under former AIG derivatives mastermind Joe Cassano. We've also had over 2 years of continual growth in both jobs and the GDP. Additionally, April 2012 was the first month in almost a decade that the U.S. government actually had a small yet undeniable budget surplus.

Having said all that, I'm not looking to try and win an argument about economic policy and/or whether the glass is half-full or half-empty. We are going to have to agree to disagree on this.

And while I'm seeing a lot of comparisons to Moore and Gaiman - who had a lot more experience in serialized, visual fiction so I fully admit that they do a number of things better than Mieville likely will - I'm not seeing a lot of specific critique.

This last observation is patently false and also a bit condescending. My criticism of Mieville's story has indeed been specific. I have noted the characterizations of both Nelson and his best friend and what exact personal qualities about them and their behavior that I find unappealing (bad health habits, destructive lifestyles, involvement in criminal activity, etc). I noted the 2 superhero identities in the book by name and described why their unspoken connections to Nelson's depression and use of tobacco don't justify the clunky, off-kilter codenames and outre designs which struck both me and other posters as weirdness for weirdness's sake.

Unless you're expecting me to list exact page numbers and the order & composition of panels, I have been quite specific in precisely what visual ideas, story elements and characterization choices I did not care for and why I didn't enjoy them.

If it's not for you, I think that's totally fair. But you don't need hours and hours to analyze the comic book. I read the issue once and figured it out, then read it again and again because I enjoyed it, and it had me thinking about potentialities.

Then Mieville's script worked beautifully for you. You got your money's worth. But I would never presume that every reader shares my perceptions or my methods of interpreting a story or that my experience is universal to all people. Hence my emphasizing that my critique was all very much in my humble opinion. I did not claim to be speaking for anyone other than me. At most, I do point out that my own impression of the book and what I didn't like about it is a view that other posters here seemed to share.

As for how much time I choose to spend reading and re-reading anything--a news article, a novel, a comic book, even a poem--that's totally my call. The fact someone can read faster or slower than me is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

Lets not go around telling others that the book is so impenetrable that there is no way to enjoy it unless you have three hours and one of Carl Jung's by your bedside, you know? That's not fair.

First off, please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say the script was completely impenetrable. I never said there's no way anyone could enjoy it. I certainly never insisted anyone needed 3 hours or more to analyze it. And the snarky Carl Jung aside is really over the top.

As for what I go around telling anyone about my own opinion? That is my business and my right to share my opinion the same as anyone else here. I would appreciate if you did not attempt to make it sound like I don't have the right to go around telling other comics fans that I do or don't like a certain book. I will tell my opinions about Dial H when and where I choose to, thanks.

[Xarcon]

I liked it. It was well written, the art was great, and the premise is very interesting. It was a tad confusing the first time though, but that was solved by reading it a second time, which I was happy to do.

It's only been one issue so far, so it could turn to crap and stay that way, but I think it's definitely worth checking out. As it stands, I can't wait for issue #2.

[gokuson]

I will 100% recommend Dial H. The first issue was not the greatest ever but thats understanable as its the writers first comic book. This series could be the next Sandman so wait for a couple of more issues to decide because according to many inside sources they say this comic book might be the suprise of the year.

[DBDucc]

I'm agreeing with a lot of what's already been said. I'm still a relatively new reader to the DCnU, but Dial H really didn't captivate me like some of the other titles I've picked up. The story, the characters ---maybe I'll pick up the trade, but for now it will not be on my pull list.

[The Animal Man]

no offense to anyone who likes him but the writer seems like he knows little to nothing about comics and in a interview he stated that since american comics were hard to come by in his country he didn't read them much and so you gotta wonder if this is just how he writes Dial H or if its how he writes all his books

[Flashpoint]

no offense to anyone who likes him but the writer seems like he knows little to nothing about comics and in a interview he stated that since american comics were hard to come by in his country he didn't read them much and so you gotta wonder if this is just how he writes Dial H or if its how he writes all his books

Agreed. I understand China Mieville is a popular author with passionate fans, but the fact that he's a commercially-successful and critically-acclaimed novelist does not mean his skills automatically translate to a mastery of comic book narrative. His ideas for how the heroes are formed is clever. But the execution of those ideas in terms of style, tone and design didn't win over everyone right out of the box. Reaction from American comics fans has been decidedly mixed and sales haven't exactly gone through the roof.

I respect Mieville's fans, but his debut comic book doesn't show complete and total success in American comic book storytelling right off the bat.

[Rakzo]

I really enjoyed it.

I thought the main character was really relatable and quite unique in comparison with other protagonists of the genre. Also, the different heroes were pretty fun to watch and the art portrayed them perfectly, it's a pretty good addition to the Dark line.

[FanboyStranger]

Agreed. I understand China Mieville is a popular author with passionate fans, but the fact that he's a commercially-successful and critically-acclaimed novelist does not mean his skills automatically translate to a mastery of comic book narrative. His ideas for how the heroes are formed is clever. But the execution of those ideas in terms of style, tone and design didn't win over everyone right out of the box. Reaction from American comics fans has been decidedly mixed and sales haven't exactly gone through the roof.

I respect Mieville's fans, but his debut comic book doesn't show complete and total success in American comic book storytelling right off the bat.

It's not really his debut. He had a story in Hellblazer 250. I actually found that story to be more successful than Dial H 1.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you've been saying about the first issue of Dial H, but I do think it shows a lot more promise that most debut issues of a series. There's rough edges there, but there's also a vision at work. I think as the series progresses Mieville will smooth out those rough spots, the artist will grow more consistant, and Dial H will be among the best of the DCnU.

[Flashpoint]

It's not really his debut. He had a story in Hellblazer 250. I actually found that story to be more successful than Dial H 1.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you've been saying about the first issue of Dial H, but I do think it shows a lot more promise that most debut issues of a series. There's rough edges there, but there's also a vision at work. I think as the series progresses Mieville will smooth out those rough spots, the artist will grow more consistant, and Dial H will be among the best of the DCnU.

Great post and very thoughtful. Thanks for correcting me on Mieville's debut DC book. I've never read that. Sad to hear you don't think Dial H was as good as his Hellblazer.

I'm an old school Dial H fan and I do want this to succeed. And thank you for backing me up on my criticisms of the book. I think the whole retro vibe doesn't work. Perfect example--why can't it be a cellphone instead of a rotary? When we make calls now, we still say we're "dialing" the number; that hasn't changed. And if Nelson is a comic book fan or a superhero fan who spends all day online, playing video games or watching TV and movies, wouldn't his imagination create superheroes more in line with his mainstream tastes?

Your stereotypical, average, dumb, chain-smoking, overweight superhero fan likes Batman, Wolverine, Spider-Man, Avengers, etc. So logically speaking, his mind wouldn't create goofy super beings like Boy Chimney or Captain Lachrymose. If anything, his mind would conjure up characters or powers in the style of his greatest heroes. Now, maybe the dial is making the choices for him and choosing identities that the dial expects him to learn from ("Smoking is bad! So we'll make you into Boy Chimney!"). But that isn't clear nor is it obvious. There's too much of a guessing game going on here and the internal logic isn't crystal clear.

Why is this advanced technology in the shape of a rotary pay phone? Why can't you dial H-E-R-O on a cellphone when we all know you can do that? Why use smoking as a basis of superpowers for a stereotypical geek who would never in a million years choose powers based on tobacco? The internal logic of the story is murky and suffers from some obvious contradictions based on cursory analysis of the central character. A guy like Nelson would most likely choose to be a hero like Batman or Wolverine.

Eh, it just doesn't make sense and the more I think about it, the less I care. (Sorry, Mieville fans )

[FanboyStranger]

Great post and very thoughtful. Thanks for correcting me on Mieville's debut DC book. I've never read that. Sad to hear you don't think Dial H was as good as his Hellblazer.

I'm an old school Dial H fan and I do want this to succeed. And thank you for backing me up on my criticisms of the book. I think the whole retro vibe doesn't work. Perfect example--why can't it be a cellphone instead of a rotary? When we make calls now, we still say we're "dialing" the number; that hasn't changed. And if Nelson is a comic book fan or a superhero fan who spends all day online, playing video games or watching TV and movies, wouldn't his imagination create superheroes more in line with his mainstream tastes?

Your stereotypical, average, dumb, chain-smoking, overweight superhero fan likes Batman, Wolverine, Spider-Man, Avengers, etc. So logically speaking, his mind wouldn't create goofy super beings like Boy Chimney or Captain Lachrymose. If anything, his mind would conjure up characters or powers in the style of his greatest heroes. Now, maybe the dial is making the choices for him and choosing identities that the dial expects him to learn from ("Smoking is bad! So we'll make you into Boy Chimney!"). But that isn't clear nor is it obvious. There's too much of a guessing game going on here and the internal logic isn't crystal clear.

Why is this advanced technology in the shape of a rotary pay phone? Why can't you dial H-E-R-O on a cellphone when we all know you can do that? Why use smoking as a basis of superpowers for a stereotypical geek who would never in a million years choose powers based on tobacco? The internal logic of the story is murky and suffers from some obvious contradictions based on cursory analysis of the central character. A guy like Nelson would most likely choose to be a hero like Batman or Wolverine.

Eh, it just doesn't make sense and the more I think about it, the less I care. (Sorry, Mieville fans )

Actually, I love the idea of the rotary phone booth. It gives sort of a mystical vibe to the whole thing-- this rotary phone appears where it's needed and grants its users powers. I think as the series progresses, the whole concept of the rotary phone is going to be one of the more interesting things for Mieville to explore.

The other thing is that Nelson isn't really choosing to become a hero; the dial is finding out what's inside him and making it manifest as a superpower. That in itself is kind of interesting to me-- I might like to think that I'm Superman, but if I were to get a superhero based on my subconcious, I'd probably turn into a walking bottle of Jameson. This is just my speculation, but I think we're going to learn at some point that the dial takes something away from you as it gives you its gifts, which is another intriguing idea. I kinda like that we're going to figure this out as Nelson does.

Not every book is going to have a wide appeal. I tend to like "cult" books, and that's what Dial H is going to be, in my opinion. It's an acquired taste, but so was Shade, the Changing Man, the book that this most resembles so far. Hopefully, sales will be strong enough for it to hold on. If Mieville progresses as I think he's going to, I think this is going to be a great book.

[Pixie_Solanas]

Agreed. I understand China Mieville is a popular author with passionate fans, but the fact that he's a commercially-successful and critically-acclaimed novelist does not mean his skills automatically translate to a mastery of comic book narrative. His ideas for how the heroes are formed is clever. But the execution of those ideas in terms of style, tone and design didn't win over everyone right out of the box. Reaction from American comics fans has been decidedly mixed and sales haven't exactly gone through the roof.

I respect Mieville's fans, but his debut comic book doesn't show complete and total success in American comic book storytelling right off the bat.

I don't understand how any comic afficianado can't appreciate the promise AND execution shown in the first issue's narrative.

I'm no Mieville fanboy, but that first issue was a refreshing off-kilter blast of unexpected quality.