Wonder Woman 9 (SPOILERS)

[Dr. Hurt]

If I did you would miss me and feel sad and I don't want that for you so I'm sticking it out.

You are the hero this fandom deserves!

[slvn]

Wow, I don't understand the dislike of this issue; I just read it and I thought this was a great issue, even though Azzarello depicts giving Diana the Guns of Eros as a mistake of Hephaestus and says Diana does not need saving;

Do you take Heph seriously when he acts befuddled and says (of giving her the pistols) "why did I do that"? I think had a plan with Diana, but he's just not explaining the plan because he doesn't trust everyone in the room. I'm hoping the plan is more Diana's than Heph's; for example, maybe the two of them met between #7 and #8, Wonder Woman told him that she planned to rescue Zola by offering herself as Hades' 'wife," but Heph said it was too much of a sacrifice and refused to provide the pistols; then Heph relented, during the scene we saw, deciding that Diana was strong-willed enough to resist the guns and giving them to her to advance her plan.

interesting that Hephaestus is now on a rescue mission;

I think he might see it less as a rescue mission--after all, as you said, he tells Zola that Wonder Woman "doesn't need to be saved"--than as a mission to prevent Hades from doing more harm, like pursuing Zola if Diana leaves. I wonder what his "gift" is; maybe something with so much love in it that it will disrupt the shadow realm (building on Aphrodite's statement that "there is no room for love in Hell"?

I thought the division of the panels were good this issue and the story moved a little better or smoother this issue compared to the last issue;

True. Good point.

but, looks like Hephaestus is married to Aphrodite and they are very much in love with one another, unlike the other story in the myth

Yeah, I was a bit surprised when Aphrodite said "the Smith has his charms."

Diana's depiction in this issue was superb, even if she was acting; she's really doing a fine job of acting

Yes, I agree.

[brettc1]

Do you take Heph seriously when he acts befuddled and says (of giving her the pistols) "why did I do that"? I think had a plan with Diana, but he's just not explaining the plan because he doesn't trust everyone in the room. I'm hoping the plan is more Diana's than Heph's; for example, maybe the two of them met between #7 and #8, Wonder Woman told him that she planned to rescue Zola by offering herself as Hades' 'wife," but Heph said it was too much of a sacrifice and refused to provide the pistols; then Heph relented, during the scene we saw, deciding that Diana was strong-willed enough to resist the guns and giving them to her to advance her plan.

That seems rather unlikely - the whole point of the guns is that nobody can resist them.

A more likely explanation would be that [a] since Diana loves everyone to some degree the guns have no affect on her or [b] they switched the ammo.

I think he might see it less as a rescue mission--after all, as you said, he tells Zola that Wonder Woman "doesn't need to be saved"--than as a mission to prevent Hades from doing more harm, like pursuing Zola if Diana leaves. I wonder what his "gift" is; maybe something with so much love in it that it will disrupt the shadow realm (building on Aphrodite's statement that "there is no room for love in Hell"?

Which is odd because it is in opposition to the whole idea of the Greek Underworld. It is not just a place of chastisement and regret. But I guess that doesn't work for the story.

Yeah, I was a but surprised when Aphrodite said "the Smith has his charms."

Guy can make any tool you can imagine.

Think about it

[Gaelforce]

I'm at the same place I have been - I think the gods are awesome, I love his different interpretations and thought his Persephone was fascinating.

But this is a book about the gods, not about Diana and it's just moving way. too. slow.

While the gods met, talked, schemed, planned, etc., Diana...put on make-up and a dress.

As I said many issues ago, I think all of this is part of a plan (hopefully Diana's) to get the throne of the gods, restore order and get Zeus back. But to me, it's dragging on just so Azzarello can devote more time to his clever gods and not enough to the hero of the book. I'm all for the 'build a new world' concept, but not at the expense of the character I only get to read in one solo title a month.

[slvn]

That seems rather unlikely - the whole point of the guns is that nobody can resist them.

You might be right. But I wouldn't mind finding out that Diana has the will to do what nobody is supposed to be able to do. The point of the lasso has also been that nobody can resist them, but Heph's comment in 7 seems to suggest that one can resist if one is not intimidated.

A more likely explanation would be that [a] since Diana loves everyone to some degree the guns have no affect on her

Yeah, that's not bad. Love as a superpower. Cool.

or b] they switched the ammo.

That was my guess last month, but now that Hades has asked ""Is your will that strong?" it would be a bit of a letdown if the answer is "Nah, we just switched the bullets."

Which is odd because it is in opposition to the whole idea of the Greek Underworld. It is not just a place of chastisement and regret. But I guess that doesn't work for the story.

True, if the souls drank from the river Lethe, they should have no memory and thus no regret. But, on the other hand, Tartarus is a place of chastisement, at least in later myths, for Sisyphys, Ixion, Tantalus and others. Plato and others even mentions the judges of the dead (Minos, Rhadamantus and the other guy.)

Guy can make any tool you can imagine.

Think about it

Point wall taken. ;) I actually like the idea that Aphrodite can see Heph's charms. I was mostly surprised because they seemed pretty much estranged in the myths, and because Eros, in 7, mentions that Aph find s Heph's work "lacking."

[slvn]

But this is a book about the gods, not about Diana

I know what you're saying. But I just want to point that just about every scene is about Diana: Who's going to her wedding? Who let her down? Who's going to rescue her? Does she even need to be rescued? Will she be mistreated as Persephone was? What is Strife trying to do to her now? Does she really love Hades, or is she faking ?Is her will that strong? What is her plan? Can she beat her own lasso?

She's not in most panels, but it all revolves around her.

[Dr. Hurt]

What if even Diana cant resist the guns, but the lasso can free you from their spell and bring back your true self?

That would mean that Strife is in on the plan, but last time we saw her she stormed out swearing revenge. Also, Diana might get freed from the spell, but what about the noose around her neck and being trapped in the underworld?

[Gaelforce]

I know what you're saying. But I just want to point that just about every scene is about Diana: Who's going to her wedding? Who let her down? Who's going to rescue her? Does she even need to be rescued? Will she be mistreated as Persephone was? What is Strife trying to do to her now? Does she really love Hades, or is she faking ?Is her will that strong? What is her plan? Can she beat her own lasso?

She's not in most panels, but it all revolves around her.

Good point.

Still, as I've been saying, it's wearing on me. I don't want to read a book about characters who are talking about the main character. I want to read a book *starring* the main character.

As WhitOro says in another thread, 'once in awhile' this sort of thing should happen. Problem for me is, it's been a constant throughout the entire run with the only exception being Issue 8 (which is essentially one long fight scene starting with battle prep and ending with a bullet).

[pad]

What if even Diana cant resist the guns, but the lasso can free you from their spell and bring back your true self?

That would mean that Strife is in on the plan, but last time we saw her she stormed out swearing revenge. Also, Diana might get freed from the spell, but what about the noose around her neck and being trapped in the underworld?

If she could fly, then she wouldn't hang. I think Diana could find a way to tell the truth without telling her plan, if she has one. But I think you are right that if she is under the power of the love bullet, then the lasso should show her the truth about her emotions.

Let me piggyback on this message to add: If Diana had some extra arms, she could be the kid sister of the Bride of Frankenstein over at S.H.A.D.E.

[slvn]

What if even Diana cant resist the guns, but the lasso can free you from their spell and bring back your true self?

Hmmm. Clever. I like it. From her facial expressions, I think that she is resisting the guns--but maybe it's a struggle, and she needs to use the lasso to be able to throw off the gun's influence for good and all.

Then, maybe she'll do a Samson and pull down the hall by the very rope that binds her. In the commotion, as all the souls are trying to pull themselves together, Hephaestus makes his move (whatever that is going to be) and Diana takes the noose off her neck and makes a break for it.

Strife swore revenge, sure, but I don't know if I would count on her to be as good (or bad) as her word.. Or, maybe she really is trying to do Diana in, and she doesn't realize that she's actually being helpful

[brettc1]

I know what you're saying. But I just want to point that just about every scene is about Diana: Who's going to her wedding? Who let her down? Who's going to rescue her? Does she even need to be rescued? Will she be mistreated as Persephone was? What is Strife trying to do to her now? Does she really love Hades, or is she faking ?Is her will that strong? What is her plan? Can she beat her own lasso?

She's not in most panels, but it all revolves around her.

And that would be fair enought - IF the creative team were no using their pages so uneconomically.

I mean, would it really have removed much from the impact if the the two pages given to the truck blowing up had been cut back to one?

Right now the book kind of reminds of the third Blade movie. The producers argue that Wesley Snipes is in almost every scene of the film, but the truth is he is completely overshadowed on screen by Ryan Reynolds Hannibal King



Snipes does plenty of action scenes but from the moment he appears on screen the film is dominated by Reynolds. He has plenty of solo scenes, a big chunk of action, and all the best lines. The only reason you know Snipes has the lead is that he fights the big bad.

I feel the same vibe here. Strife and War come across as far more interesting than on page than Diana. In fact pretty much everyone does.

[slvn]

I mean, would it really have removed much from the impact if the the two pages given to the truck blowing up had been cut back to one?

In that instance, I pretty much agree with you; the two-page splash was not needed.

I feel the same vibe here. Strife and War come across as far more interesting than on page than Diana. In fact pretty much everyone does.

There, I don't really agree.Trying to understand Diana's state of mind--including whether she feels genuine compassion for Hades when he says he's incapable of love--is probably the most fascinating part of this read, for me.

[liopleurodon]

I'm at the same place I have been - I think the gods are awesome, I love his different interpretations and thought his Persephone was fascinating.

But this is a book about the gods, not about Diana and it's just moving way. too. slow.

While the gods met, talked, schemed, planned, etc., Diana...put on make-up and a dress.

As I said many issues ago, I think all of this is part of a plan (hopefully Diana's) to get the throne of the gods, restore order and get Zeus back. But to me, it's dragging on just so Azzarello can devote more time to his clever gods and not enough to the hero of the book. I'm all for the 'build a new world' concept, but not at the expense of the character I only get to read in one solo title a month.

I think you're looking at it the wrong way. Diana might not be on every panel, or even in every page, but everything that is happening is about her. The gods are brought in the story as supporting characters to further her story, they talk about her, and the things she does. They are talking about her, scheming about her, and planing things that affect her. You say all Diana did was put on a dress ... but it's more than that, read into the subtext, and you can see that she is planing to bring down Hades, and this is her way of doing it. I doubt that she's really in love with him, and even if she is, the lasso will break that spell. What she is doing, she is doing for a purpose. It's more than just getting prettied up for a wedding.

[Dr. Hurt]

Man, this discussion has been going on for months, not to mention that it's currently going in two threads simultaneously.

[Don-Jack]

I think the bullet could affect her, but "there is no room for love in Hell", therefore she is not in love with Hades