Why are Democrats having a hard time getting blue collar white Dem voters?

[dupont2005]

Who are "they"?

Are you really saying the entire opposition of the NRA's position is a monolithic block of people trying to take your guns away from you? Isn't that, you know, a little crazy?

He thinks it's a radical idea to want people to register their weapons and have a background check before they take home an Uzi

[dupont2005]

If you do a little research on the assault weapons ban you'd find that it actually was mostly about the look of the weapon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal...lt_Weapons_Ban

In the section of the above link titled: Definition of assault weapon, you'll see what I'm talking about.

so if it looks like it's a semi auto rifle fitted with a folding stock and a 75 round mag?

[Morlock50]

I agree. Obama, imo, is not nearly as left-wing as his opponents make him out to be (I wish he was). The Republicans did the same thing to Clinton while he was in office, saying he was an extreme lefty who was ruining the country. Only difference was Clinton didn't have to deal with the racial remarks.

[Paradox]

It's been said before, but if the current Republicans had just policy and no names in front of them, they'd call Nixon and Reagan "leftys".

[mikekerrIII]

Who are "they"?

Are you really saying the entire opposition of the NRA's position is a monolithic block of people trying to take your guns away from you? Isn't that, you know, a little crazy?

they trends to Be:
The Brady Campaign, who is perhaps even less honest that the NRA,
Peop lesthat think that only rich people who can hire bodyguards have a right to self defense like Bloonberg in NYC.
Throw in the idiotic cities, who helped the anti-gun control crowd, by deciding that the 2nd amendment is not applicable to when they think it is not. those folks helped the right to keep and bear arms more than anyone else recently when the SC slapped them down and in the process affirmed that it was a individual right

Mike also has not explained to us how disappearance of unregistered immigrants would help farmers.

I fucked up and put helped instead of hurt

He thinks it's a radical idea to want people to register their weapons and have a background check before they take home an Uzi

Because it is radical idea that requires changing the laws of most US states and produces nothing but paperwork. the rules to take home an UZI were not changed by that law, they have been the same for over 70 years,

so if it looks like it's a semi auto rifle fitted with a folding stock and a 75 round mag?

Then it is a semi-automatic rifle, how it looks is irrelevant.

[Nick Soapdish]

It is a very well defined term< at least when defined by anyone who has a clue what an assualt rifle is other than being scary looking.

If it is not selective fire (capable of full automatic fire) and does not fire an Intermediate range cartridge (ak47 and M-10 it is not a assault rifle). Automatic weapons sale and licensing was not affected at all by that law.

Part of the problem with many gun control laws is the folks that write them are often obviously clueless about the things they are trying to control. When you here a politician spouting what is either near total ignorance or if not ignorance lies, would you trust him to control what he is talking about?

My mistake. I just remembered that the assault rifle ban basically missed its target.

Oh, and speaking of the extremists that oppose the NRA, the second or third biggest issue in Florida (after the Stand Your Ground and guns in day cares) is whether a private, non-governmental establishment has the right to restrict people from carrying guns. The only establishments that can choose to restrict people from bringing guns into them are churches.


As to the original question, I suspect that a lot of it is fairly specific to Obama since the Democrats have done well with blue collar workers with essentially the same positions prior to his candidacy. Even Hillary did well in the primaries. It's not racism, but it's related. It's implicit racial bias, which was discussed last week on NPR. Even self-proclaimed liberals tend do poorly on the test. They think that they think well of blacks and consciously, they do. But their subconscious is telling them a different story.

I did very poorly on the test, scoring a strong automatic preference for European Americans over African Americans. I'm honestly not that surprised because I don't know many African Americans although I'd hoped to score just a moderate preference. But in my case, I've been conscious of it which I'd like to think gives me a slight advantage. Apparently, it hasn't done much to correct the implicit bias, but maybe it moderates my behavior a bit. In the interview, they indicated that most people are unaware of this (or perhaps just underestimate it like myself because I'm on the verge of patting myself on the back for a failing grade).

[Alex L]

The NRA is no more, or no less moderate than their opposition.

Considering the NRA's official position on Obama is that he's secretly waiting for his second term and THEN he'll forcibly take everyone's guns away, which is why you should give the NRA money, I somewhat doubt that.

I do, however, agree with you that gun laws should be written by people who know something about guns or else we get legislation that bans things simply because they look dangerous as opposed to actually being dangerous; from what I understand pistol grips and folding stocks fall into this category.

[blackdragon6]

i get the wedge issue thing, but do the republicans have any wedge issues, or do they just close ranks, circle the wagons and stick together? also it seems to me that the white middle class has become more supportive of republicans the more blacks, browns support democrats. a white friend of mine believes this to be true. saying that working class whites are put off by the huge support from blacks and latinos for the democratic party. he thinks it's because of the black/latino interests that some whites are at odds with.

[Winslow]

As to the original question, I suspect that a lot of it is fairly specific to Obama since the Democrats have done well with blue collar workers with essentially the same positions prior to his candidacy. Even Hillary did well in the primaries. It's not racism, but it's related. It's implicit racial bias, which was discussed last week on NPR. Even self-proclaimed liberals tend do poorly on the test. They think that they think well of blacks and consciously, they do. But their subconscious is telling them a different story.

I did very poorly on the test, scoring a strong automatic preference for European Americans over African Americans. I'm honestly not that surprised because I don't know many African Americans although I'd hoped to score just a moderate preference. But in my case, I've been conscious of it which I'd like to think gives me a slight advantage. Apparently, it hasn't done much to correct the implicit bias, but maybe it moderates my behavior a bit. In the interview, they indicated that most people are unaware of this (or perhaps just underestimate it like myself because I'm on the verge of patting myself on the back for a failing grade).

That test was interesting. I thought living in a black neghborhood and teaching at a predominantly black school would give me a preference for black people, since I have had a lot of positive associations for several years. I scored neutral. Which to me indicates that those of us that think we have a preference are still infected with a negative racial bias (that is, we lean further towards white preference than we realize).

[mikekerrIII]

I do, however, agree with you that gun laws should be written by people who know something about guns or else we get legislation that bans things simply because they look dangerous as opposed to actually being dangerous; from what I understand pistol grips and folding stocks fall into this category.

That is pretty much what I was trying to say.

And also I think that people here should realize that universal firearms registration is a radical idea for most states, especially without first showing how it serves any practical purpose. People act like gun registration is the norm in the US when it is not even close to being the norm.

That idea and the silliness of the "looks evil" gun laws are one of the reasons that rural and working class white voters tend to not vote Democrat. things like banning even standard sized magazines for poplar pistols don't help much either,

[dupont2005]

Because it is radical idea that requires changing the laws of most US states and produces nothing but paperwork. the rules to take home an UZI were not changed by that law, they have been the same for over 70 years,

It's not really a radical idea at all to make sure the guy that came in to buy a dozen AK-47's isn't on parole for murder. It's not a radical idea to want a trail of evidence leading the investigators from the pistol tossed in a gutter after a slaying to it's owner. In fact I'd say it's fucking idiotic to think otherwise. We're expected to register our cars, why not our tools of death?

[dupont2005]

And also I think that people here should realize that universal firearms registration is a radical idea for most states

The same states that think evolution and mixed race marriages are a radical idea. I frankly don't care what those neanderthals think.

[dupont2005]

Then it is a semi-automatic rifle, how it looks is irrelevant.

But they didn't ban it based on it's looks. They banned it based on it's ability to swap parts with fully automatic battlefield rifles with large capacity mags. Their ability to be modified into chain guns with things a typical gun nut might have laying around the house. To say an SKS or a Mac-90 is not an assault weapon because it's not full auto is just as ridiculous as the rest of your ideas about gun control. The sole purpose the Mac 90 exists is to skirt gun laws and put AK-47's in the hands of people who live where AK-47's have been banned, and to claim otherwise is ridiculous. A $2 piece of bent metal will turn either of those guns into fully automatic weapons. The internet is filled with kits to make either weapon a gatling gun. The guns don't need these parts and kits to be assault weapons, they already are. That's the reason they make kits for these guns and not the Remington 700.

[Comic_Mobsta]

or do they just close ranks, circle the wagons and stick together?

IMHO yes, more or less. They grit their teeth and go along with the team. I personally also think it has a lot to do with the fact the republican party isn't a big tent party (no matter what they say). The Dems on the other hand has TONS of conflicts of interests.

saying that working class whites are put off by the huge support from blacks and latinos for the democratic party. he thinks it's because of the black/latino interests that some whites are at odds with.

Then there's that.

[dupersuper]

Because it is radical idea that requires changing the laws of most US states and produces nothing but paperwork. the rules to take home an UZI were not changed by that law, they have been the same for over 70 years

While the Uzis themselves have changed a great deal...