Wolverine's current back-story (correct me if I'm wrong)...

[Rasputin9977]

Xavier IS around 80. He served in the Korean War, which was confirmed still in continuity by Carey in Legacy. He's a very old man in a cloned body.

If First X-Men DOESN'T take place in what looks like the 50's or 60's at the latest, then they're retconning.

No he isn't in his 80s nor did he serve in the Korean War. His body was cloned when he had formed the New Mutants. Whatever Carey said was an error that was missed by lazy editorial.

[worstblogever]

Xavier IS around 80. He served in the Korean War, which was confirmed still in continuity by Carey in Legacy. He's a very old man in a cloned body.

If First X-Men DOESN'T take place in what looks like the 50's or 60's at the latest, then they're retconning.

That's still the case, yes.

No he isn't in his 80s nor did he serve in the Korean War. His body was cloned when he had formed the New Mutants. Whatever Carey said was an error that was missed by lazy editorial.

... unless you want to argue semantics. Mentally, Xavier is 80, and has lived for 80 years. Physically, he's much younger, due to his body having been cloned. This topic actually is one I covered while writing the FAQ thread, for whomever wants all the specifics.

[Rasputin9977]

That's still the case, yes.



... unless you want to argue semantics. Mentally, Xavier is 80, and has lived for 80 years. Physically, he's much younger, due to his body having been cloned. This topic actually is one I covered while writing the FAQ thread, for whomever wants all the specifics.

doesn't fit in with the sliding timescale though. Going by your explanation, that would make Xavier in his 80s when he was cloned. In ten years, it will be moved to his 90s. That's not true since he was in his late 40s or early 50s when he was cloned.

[worstblogever]

doesn't fit in with the sliding timescale though. Going by your explanation, that would make Xavier in his 80s when he was cloned. In ten years, it will be moved to his 90s. That's not true since he was in his late 40s or early 50s when he was cloned.

Doesn't matter. They haven't changed the Juggernaut/Xavier origin away from Korea, like they, say, changed Tony Stark's out of Vietnam to avoid giving him a definitive birth date. But with Xavier, they can't, because he was supposed to parallel in age to Magneto, all along. And being a kid during WWII is sure as heck important to Magneto's back story, that they won't "sliding time scale" him away from it, either.

And for the record, before Xavier was cloned, there was a big deal being made about how his old body was failing him. You'd be surprised what a human in their 80s can do, let alone a mutant that age... I mean, Jack La Lane alone.

In other words, concede the obvious point already.

[BLACKWINGS]

worstblogever . . . I don't know whether to be impressed with your detailed account of Wolverine continuity, or absolutely saddened that Wolverine's continuity can be "summarized" in that many pages to begin with. I give you props for your work, but it definitely further proves the notion that Wolverine has become an absolute train-wreck of ideas. The more they continue to "reveal" about Wolverine, the less interested in the character I become.

[bat39]

Doesn't matter. They haven't changed the Juggernaut/Xavier origin away from Korea, like they, say, changed Tony Stark's out of Vietnam to avoid giving him a definitive birth date. But with Xavier, they can't, because he was supposed to parallel in age to Magneto, all along. And being a kid during WWII is sure as heck important to Magneto's back story, that they won't "sliding time scale" him away from it, either.

And for the record, before Xavier was cloned, there was a big deal being made about how his old body was failing him. You'd be surprised what a human in their 80s can do, let alone a mutant that age... I mean, Jack La Lane alone.

In other words, concede the obvious point already.

Honestly, the whole Magneto-Professor X backstory is only going to be an increasingly bigger problem the more time passes. If Eric's birth year is frozen at 1928, while Xavier is on the sliding timescale, then Eric grows older each year while Charles stays the same age. Which means that the original story of them meeting as young men in Israel would have to be SERIOUSLY altered at some point, to include a MUCH older Eric.

Alternatively, they COULD freeze Charles' birth year as well...but that wouldn't work either, since that means Charles formed the X-men increasingly later in life.

The mix of real-time and the sliding timescale may eventually pose a problem for Wolverine as well. His adventures in WW2, and to an extent, his Team X days, are frozen at a specific time period...while, to my understanding, anything from Weapon X onwards is part of the sliding timescale. So the gap between, say, the end of his Team X days in 1972, and his capture by Weapon X (around 15-20 years ago, I guess) is only increasing with each passing year. Though I suppose this just means writers get even MORE opportunities to tell flashback stories surrounding Logan.

[worstblogever]

worstblogever . . . I don't know whether to be impressed with your detailed account of Wolverine continuity, or absolutely saddened that Wolverine's continuity can be "summarized" in that many pages to begin with. I give you props for your work, but it definitely further proves the notion that Wolverine has become an absolute train-wreck of ideas. The more they continue to "reveal" about Wolverine, the less interested in the character I become.

Thanks. That whole project of mine has been put on the backburner, and honestly, I don't know if it will ever be "current". For today, though, it answered bat39's question, so I guess it was worthwhile.

Honestly, the whole Magneto-Professor X backstory is only going to be an increasingly bigger problem the more time passes. If Eric's birth year is frozen at 1928, while Xavier is on the sliding timescale, then Eric grows older each year while Charles stays the same age. Which means that the original story of them meeting as young men in Israel would have to be SERIOUSLY altered at some point, to include a MUCH older Eric.

Alternatively, they COULD freeze Charles' birth year as well...but that wouldn't work either, since that means Charles formed the X-men increasingly later in life.

The mix of real-time and the sliding timescale may eventually pose a problem for Wolverine as well. His adventures in WW2, and to an extent, his Team X days, are frozen at a specific time period...while, to my understanding, anything from Weapon X onwards is part of the sliding timescale. So the gap between, say, the end of his Team X days in 1972, and his capture by Weapon X (around 15-20 years ago, I guess) is only increasing with each passing year. Though I suppose this just means writers get even MORE opportunities to tell flashback stories surrounding Logan.

They don't have to. Magneto's aged body was de-aged by the Stranger, and then re-aged to an adult (but not an old man) by Erik the Red. Done. They're still the same age. It lets them have been around years and years ago, but not be too much appreciably older than the oldest X-characters. Everybody wins, I suppose.

[Rasputin9977]

Thanks. That whole project of mine has been put on the backburner, and honestly, I don't know if it will ever be "current". For today, though, it answered bat39's question, so I guess it was worthwhile.



They don't have to. Magneto's aged body was de-aged by the Stranger, and then re-aged to an adult (but not an old man) by Erik the Red. Done. They're still the same age. It lets them have been around years and years ago, but not be too much appreciably older than the oldest X-characters. Everybody wins, I suppose.

Looks like you don't have a firm grasp on how the sliding timescale works. I'll put it this way. Moira was around both during the period when Charles went to war and when his body was cloned. Does that mean shes in her 80s?

[worstblogever]

Looks like you don't have a firm grasp on how the sliding timescale works. I'll put it this way. Moira was around both during the period when Charles went to war and when his body was cloned. Does that mean shes in her 80s?

No, because she's already dead, so they stopped counting years ago.

The Xavier in the Korean War stuff still hasn't been retconned. You can sit here all day with your arms crossed and keep saying "sliding timeline", but unless you slide World War II and the Korean War to the 60s and 70s, then Vietnam to the 80s... you have a simple enemy here, dude. It's called MATH. It apparently is not your friend.

[Rasputin9977]

No, because she's already dead, so they stopped counting years ago.

The Xavier in the Korean War stuff still hasn't been retconned. You can sit here all day with your arms crossed and keep saying "sliding timeline", but unless you slide World War II and the Korean War to the 60s and 70s, then Vietnam to the 80s... you have a simple enemy here, dude. It's called MATH. It apparently is not your friend.

Exactly. My point is that the math doesnt add up if these characters don't roll with the sliding timescale. It just creates a continuity mess. Youre learning grasshopper. Youre learning.

[worstblogever]

Exactly. My point is that the math doesnt add up if these characters don't roll with the sliding timescale. It just creates a continuity mess. Youre learning grasshopper. Youre learning.

Based off of one already dead character, Moira MacTaggart. Whose history doesn't actually have any specific dates or events with it, save for a generic, "after the war".

The timeline doesn't need to be slid about for Xavier or Magneto, based off their cloning/deaging. Seems like it would just be as easy to explain away as "her crazy reality-warping kid, Proteus, shaved some years off her physical age and kept her looking young. If not him, Legion, while he was around Moira, who was like his adoptive mother for a time."

That aside, you're still wrong, Xavier's timeline has not been slid by Marvel. Even if you were to retcon Xavier and Juggernaut out of the Korean War and loosely to Vietnam (which some have claimed has happened with the flashbacks to Juggernaut's origin going from "mission in Korea" to "Mission in Asia" to make it generic)... there's still him treating Holocaust survivors in Israel a few years after WWII to consider. Some points can slide, but when Marvel uses actual dates, it goes out the window...

And your argument, as I've just found, is completely invalid, and sir, it is YOU who don't understand the sliding time scale. It doesn't slide until the events of Fantastic Four (vol. 1) #1. Meaning, all the stuff that happens in history before that event... the Korean War, WWII, all the stuff from Xavier, and Magneto's origin?

CAN NOT SLIDE.

From the conclusion at the end of the "Marvel Time" entry, on their own website?

So there is no official absolute correct solution to contradict.

You can't retcon/slide anything to make the Marvel Universe make sense. Thanks for playing.

[Rasputin9977]

Based off of one already dead character, Moira MacTaggart. Whose history doesn't actually have any specific dates or events with it, save for a generic, "after the war".

The timeline doesn't need to be slid about for Xavier or Magneto, based off their cloning/deaging. Seems like it would just be as easy to explain away as "her crazy reality-warping kid, Proteus, shaved some years off her physical age and kept her looking young. If not him, Legion, while he was around Moira, who was like his adoptive mother for a time."

That aside, you're still wrong, Xavier's timeline has not been slid by Marvel. Even if you were to retcon Xavier and Juggernaut out of the Korean War and loosely to Vietnam (which some have claimed has happened with the flashbacks to Juggernaut's origin going from "mission in Korea" to "Mission in Asia" to make it generic)... there's still him treating Holocaust survivors in Israel a few years after WWII to consider. Some points can slide, but when Marvel uses actual dates, it goes out the window...

And your argument, as I've just found, is completely invalid, and sir, it is YOU who don't understand the sliding time scale. It doesn't slide until the events of Fantastic Four (vol. 1) #1. Meaning, all the stuff that happens in history before that event... the Korean War, WWII, all the stuff from Xavier, and Magneto's origin?

CAN NOT SLIDE.

From the conclusion at the end of the "Marvel Time" entry, on their own website?



You can't retcon/slide anything to make the Marvel Universe make sense. Thanks for playing.

moira had a significant part in Xaviers history seeing as his reason for exploring the world was her dumping him. Yes she's dead but that happened what, maybe ten years ago our time? What does that make it in 616 time, three years or so? If Xaviers Korean war history is kept then that would mean moira was in her 60s or 70s when sje died. And we all kmow that's not true. Also things prior to FF#1 have been retconned. You even mentioned one, Iron Mans involvement in Vietnam. Madison jeffries and his brothers time in Vietnam were also retconned. Karma from the New mutants and her siblings were around during Vietnam but that has been retconned. Reed was part or the OSS during WWII. Do you really think that still happened? Just because Marvel has set a date on a character doesn't mean they won't retcon said characters origin to coincide with the sliding timescale. These characters have back stories prior to FF#1 and these backgrounds get shifted forward with the sliding timescale. Its cool though I dont mind schooligng you on these things.

[Rasputin9977]

Based off of one already dead character, Moira MacTaggart. Whose history doesn't actually have any specific dates or events with it, save for a generic, "after the war".

The timeline doesn't need to be slid about for Xavier or Magneto, based off their cloning/deaging. Seems like it would just be as easy to explain away as "her crazy reality-warping kid, Proteus, shaved some years off her physical age and kept her looking young. If not him, Legion, while he was around Moira, who was like his adoptive mother for a time."

That aside, you're still wrong, Xavier's timeline has not been slid by Marvel. Even if you were to retcon Xavier and Juggernaut out of the Korean War and loosely to Vietnam (which some have claimed has happened with the flashbacks to Juggernaut's origin going from "mission in Korea" to "Mission in Asia" to make it generic)... there's still him treating Holocaust survivors in Israel a few years after WWII to consider. Some points can slide, but when Marvel uses actual dates, it goes out the window...

And your argument, as I've just found, is completely invalid, and sir, it is YOU who don't understand the sliding time scale. It doesn't slide until the events of Fantastic Four (vol. 1) #1. Meaning, all the stuff that happens in history before that event... the Korean War, WWII, all the stuff from Xavier, and Magneto's origin?

CAN NOT SLIDE.

From the conclusion at the end of the "Marvel Time" entry, on their own website?



You can't retcon/slide anything to make the Marvel Universe make sense. Thanks for playing.

interestingly enough, that link you provided specifically states that Xaviers time in the Korean war was retconned away. lol.

[worstblogever]

interestingly enough, that link you provided specifically states that Xaviers time in the Korean war was retconned away. lol.

It said it may have been substituted with Vietnam by some editors, and I acknowledged as much in my post.

You're still wrong, and stubbornly defending a concept even Marvel says does not apply to either of the characters on that page. Convenient that you ignore that. As well as how the article, and I both have stated, even if you switch that war, there's still Gabrielle Haller, who's supposed to be recovering from the Holocaust, to account for.

[Rasputin9977]

Worst.
Post.
Ever.

Since you're just ignoring I'll just post this final post and let it go. Also because I don't know how much more I can simplify what I'm saying.
[QUOTE=worstblogever;15185652]It said it may have been substituted with Vietnam by some editors, and I acknowledged as much in my post.[/b]
Now English is my 2nd language but I'm pretty sure this means that his time in the Korean Wars retconned, not that it may have been subtituted.
[quote] Professor X fought in Korea in the 1970s. This is later retconned anyway.[quote]

You're still wrong, and stubbornly defending a concept even Marvel says does not apply to either of the characters on that page. Convenient that you ignore that. As well as how the article, and I both have stated, even if you switch that war, there's still Gabrielle Haller, who's supposed to be recovering from the Holocaust, to account for.

And no I'm not ignore Haller. Granted I didn't mention her name but that's my point in bringing up Moira. Stories with characters set in a set period cause continuity problems; i.e. if Xavier's Korean War time isn't retconned then in 20 years, he will be around 100 years old when his body was cloned.