Justice League #9 Preview and Discussion

**LoneNecromancer** · 05-16-2012, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by TZDEKA

Pretty meh, as usual. And again I have to wonder why Batman is in the Justice League if all Johns ever does with him is go on about how incompetent he is. It's gotten to the point where I sorta wish he had replaced Batman with Cyborg instead of Martian Manhunter.

How did he do that? The line about Gotham having a really high murder rate? Well, yeah. I thought that was pretty obvious and has been the case for years. Have you seen how many criminals are in that place?

**WhitOro** · 05-16-2012, 12:39 PM

I liked, I thought it was a pretty solid issue, better than most of the previous ones. If I had a note, it's that trought the issue, every member of the JL gets these little flashbacks, and aside from... well, no, they don't serve any real purpose, at least right now, probably is bulding up to something for the next issues of this arc.
The Superman and Batman one I felt were kind of cheesy. "I don't have a favourite color anymore"
Jeesh, seriously?

Backup was good, better than the actual issue, but that seems to be a pattern of late, I don't know why, I'm just much more interested in the kids.

**DaronK** · 05-16-2012, 12:42 PM

So I'm curious to know what everyone thought of the new issue, especially those people like me who haven't been happy with it. I love the JL and the characters in it, but the book has done nothing for me, and I dropped it with issue #8, which I thought was the worst of the series. However, I want to like the book and am willing to come back if it ever picks up.

So how was it, is it getting any better? I flipped through it, but it didn't honestly look any better than before.

**TZDEKA** · 05-16-2012, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by LoneNecromancer

How did he do that? The line about Gotham having a really high murder rate? Well, yeah. I thought that was pretty obvious and has been the case for years. Have you seen how many criminals are in that place?

The implication was that Batman is incapable of making it any better, and it was just this issues variation of making Batman out to be incompetent. Others would include having people on about how he's "just a man", "doesn't have powers", or "doesn't do anything", plus the fact that the only contribution he's made to the team is give GL and Cyborg pep talks. Even when he went to save Superman from Apokolips, Cyborg ended up being the one who actually saved Superman. So yeah, Johns is kind of failing at writing the team well in general, but it's especially true with Batman. When you take an iconic character and do nothing with him but try and show how useless he is, that's a failing of the writing.

**WhitOro** · 05-16-2012, 12:46 PM

I find hilarious that the plastered Graves full front all across the internet and previews and put his big goofy grin on the variant cover, yet in the actual issue, they try to build the suspense on "Oooh, how does he look like?" always showing him in the shadows or from behind.

**Rakzo** · 05-16-2012, 12:48 PM

I loved this. The interaction between all the characters keeps being fun (Barry being the bad cop?, hilarious) and I enjoyed the little insight of each character's psyche. Though, I hope that we finally start seeing Graves's story and how he plans to take the JL.

Still, I have to say that the Shazam backup was much better. Every kid has a distinct personality and this is the first time that I've thought Billy Batson as a badass, also I don't know what to think about Sivana's new new look.

**LoneNecromancer** · 05-16-2012, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by TZDEKA

The implication was that Batman is incapable of making it any better, and it was just this issues variation of making Batman out to be incompetent.

It was two people on the news debating. The other person then countered that by saying Batman is proving that there's something worth fighting for by staying in Gotham. Also, and even so, the idea of "Bruce's mission is doomed from the start as he can't ever stop all the crime in Gotham" isn't anything new being put forward by Johns to express that Batman sucks, it's basically always been used to show how committed Bruce is.

Your argument is like saying that the guy on the news in TDKR complaining about Batman being a menace responsible for all the crimes the Joker and Two-Face commit is Frank Miller's feelings on the character.

**TZDEKA** · 05-16-2012, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by LoneNecromancer

It was two people on the news debating. The other person then countered that by saying Batman is proving that there's something worth fighting for by staying in Gotham. Also, and even so, the idea of "Bruce's mission is doomed from the start as he can't ever stop all the crime in Gotham" isn't anything new being put forward by Johns to express that Batman sucks, it's basically always been used to show how committed Bruce is.

Your argument is like saying that the guy on the news in TDKR complaining about Batman being a menace responsible for all the crimes the Joker and Two-Face commit is Frank Miller's feelings on the character.

In Miller's version there was a balance. In this, nothing ever happens to prove all those people saying Batman is useless wrong, and we already know the history Johns has with the character. And maybe there's something wrong with the copy I'm reading, I dunno, but I don't see where it says that Batman's proving Gotham's worth fighting for. The last word on the subject before the scene changed was "Why doesn't he just stay with the Justice League all the time?", at least in the version I'm seeing. And before people say anything, I'm not saying Batman should overshadow the rest of the League. I'm saying there's plenty that could be done to emphasize everyone's role in the team more effectively instead of having Batman mostly exist to be hailed as the useless guy.

**Dr. Hurt** · 05-16-2012, 01:22 PM

When i'm wrong, i'm the first to admit it. This was good! I liked it!!!

- Action with actual character moments.
- Nice sense of humor
- Everything about Trevor
- The bad guy seems to know how to get to them and hurt them.
- Nice camaraderie between the leaguers.

I do have some complaints though:

- Graves is mad that the JL didnt cure him from cancer? Is this like the Grounded story where that lady dissed Superman for not saving her husband from cancer? I'll hold my judgement till i'm sure, but if that's the case then this would be f***ing stupid.
- Blowing holes through a mental institution?
- Batman not knowing how to navigate Arkham with his eyes closed? Ok maybe they needed to locate him, but Cyborg was "the map", not a "locating device".
- Cyborg in Batman's computers. That rustled my jimmies.
- Pages wasted on crap. I wanted more of the good stuff, not 3 pages on Hal and Barry playing good cop - bad cop, not a whole page of Grave's living room with the dead doctor! Come on, give me more story!
- Batman and the FP letter. It was good in the context of the story, but i dont know if i normally want him to be crying about his alternate reality dad. And obviously that shows that Johns cant write Batman beyond showing him being emo and brooding. That colour thing was crap.
- Lee still not drawing WW like everyone else because **** those guys, i'm co-editor.

But anyway those are minor complaints. I loved this issue.

**LoneNecromancer** · 05-16-2012, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by TZDEKA

And maybe there's something wrong with the copy I'm reading, I dunno, but I don't see where it says that Batman's proving Gotham's worth fighting for. The last word on the subject before the scene changed was "Why doesn't he just stay with the Justice League all the time?", at least in the version I'm seeing.

Ah, yeah, I'll apologise about that, I remembered the scene wrongly.

**Dr. Hurt** · 05-16-2012, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by TZDEKA

The implication was that Batman is incapable of making it any better, and it was just this issues variation of making Batman out to be incompetent. Others would include having people on about how he's "just a man", "doesn't have powers", or "doesn't do anything", plus the fact that the only contribution he's made to the team is give GL and Cyborg pep talks. Even when he went to save Superman from Apokolips, Cyborg ended up being the one who actually saved Superman. So yeah, Johns is kind of failing at writing the team well in general, but it's especially true with Batman. When you take an iconic character and do nothing with him but try and show how useless he is, that's a failing of the writing.

I'm hoping that in the end Batman will prove his worth, but knowing Johns and his relationship with Batman... i am not so sure...

**Mr. Holmes** · 05-16-2012, 01:34 PM

Was the first Batman scene a reference to Rolling Stones Paint it Black?

**The Red Deluge** · 05-16-2012, 01:36 PM

I actually found things to enjoy in this issue and its been a good few months since I was able to say that about the book. Probably Justice League #3.

**Desaad** · 05-16-2012, 01:37 PM

This was one of the better issues of the run, for sure.

Notably that's because THINGS HAPPENED here.

It's still fairly predictable and very rote - "the villain's journey" looks like an excuse to trot out all the standard villain tropes, and the whole 'villain goes around taking down other villains to show how impressive they are' is pretty much one of the oldest we get - but there is some good forward momentum on the story, some nice action, and some fun character work.

Not the best issue I read this week by any stretch of the imagination, but neither was it the worst (that goes to you, AvX Vs 2).