Interesting analysis of Wonder Woman 8

[Wulfmir]

"Is it a fear of alienating DC's targeted male-boy readership that leads to Diana having so little personality?" That's the impression I've been getting.

If people can't see Diana's personality which has been reiterated here again and again...

[Maximum Impact]

If people can't see Diana's personality which has been reiterated here again and again...

It's A personality, but it's not HER personality. See my earlier Sgt. Rock comment for clarity.

[CarolStrick]

Personality? She's cardboard.

[WhitOro]

Personality? She's cardboard.

Care to explain, why do you feel that way?

It's A personality, but it's not HER personality.

Dear lord. This is my problem right here: I can understand when people say "I don't like this book". There's plenty of things that I don't like but most do. What I can't stand is this attitude "This book is wrong" or "this is not the right thing".
It's fiction. Wonder Woman is a series of painted lines. What she is is what the writer in charge chooses her to be. Characters don't have a life of their own. It's a very interesting concept the possibility that they could have one, worthy of many Morrison's book, but at the end of the day, THEY DON'T.
They're not real. Therefore, there's not a "RIGHT" or a "WRONG" way to write them.

[Gaelforce]

Dear lord. I can understand when people say "I don't like this book". There's plenty of things that I don't like but most do. What I can't stand is this attitude "This book is wrong".

I think for many fans it's like this...

Batman has been written many different ways over the decades he's been in print and in other media, but if Batman started at issue one and suddenly he's a cheery happy playboy who thinks being Batman is fun, calls Robin 'old chum' and grins a lot, the fan base would be howling 'where's THE Dark Knight! This isn't Batman!!'

A lot of long time Wonder Woman fans are the same. To them, this is Wonder Woman:





So when someone like Azzarello comes along and doesn't just adjust/tweak the character but deviates so dramatically from the 'mainstream' or 'iconic' interpretation, it's difficult to swallow. Does it make it wrong? Well, yeah, for *them* it is wrong. It's become a good story about a character who isn't the one they've been reading for decades.

It's kinda why I'm having a hard time with it. I love the writing style, I adore the art, I find the overall story fascinating, but the feeling I get is that Azzarello had a great story to tell about the modern day Greek gods, a missing Zeus and a mortal woman pregnant with Zeus's baby and you could plug just about any generic hero in the role he's alotted to Diana. In order to make *his* story work? He had to change the entire origin of the character.

That says something to me. He's changing Diana so that she works with the story he had in mind rather than writing a story about Wonder Woman.

[Dr. Hurt]

I think it has to do with the fact that the character hasnt had the various different interpretations and adaptions like say... batman has had. So when soemthing like this happens it's hard to swallow.

I think that even if Azzarello's story ends up being mediocre (we still dont know where it's headed), that at least we would have all this glorious worldbuilding left to play with. And that's also true for the JL book which made Trevor into a very important guy who ll always be relevant because of his position. I'd personally like to see him and Etta in the WW book after Azz finishes this story and proceeds to his next one. Maybe Trevor and Argus can tag along with her like how Shield was featured a lot in the Ironman books?

[wagthedog]

I think it has to do with the fact that the character hasnt had the various different interpretations and adaptions like say... batman has had. So when soemthing like this happens it's hard to swallow.

I think that even if Azzarello's story ends up being mediocre (we still dont know where it's headed), that at least we would have all this glorious worldbuilding left to play with. And that's also true for the JL book which made Trevor into a very important guy who ll always be relevant because of his position. I'd personally like to see him and Etta in the WW book after Azz finishes this story and proceeds to his next one. Maybe Trevor and Argus can tag along with her like how Shield was featured a lot in the Ironman books?

What is all this 'WORLD BUILDING' that I keep reading? The fact that the gods are a focus? Well, that has been done before. That she lives in London? And this is different because she is not in America? That her one non-godly contact is Zola? This is different than other characters like Steve, Etta, the Kapetalis (spelling)?

What is this 'WORLD BUILDING'? Because I think we are getting short changed if this is what we got so far after 8 issues

[Mecegirl]

What is all this 'WORLD BUILDING' that I keep reading? The fact that the gods are a focus? Well, that has been done before. That she lives in London? And this is different because she is not in America? That her one non-godly contact is Zola? This is different than other characters like Steve, Etta, the Kapetalis (spelling)?

What is this 'WORLD BUILDING'? Because I think we are getting short changed if this is what we got so far after 8 issues

Yes...The story's focus is on the "world" morso than the main character. We don't get much about who Di is or even her inner thoughts but we have been learning about how her world operates.

Personally I would like to know more about Diana but for me it was pretty obvious that this story was going to focus more on the world or milieu instead of the main character from about issue two so I adjusted my expectations.
http://ptbertram.wordpress.com/2011/...es-of-stories/
http://triton.towson.edu/~schmitt/311/pages/tsld005.htm

But of course it is an odd story structure for Diana. She should already know about how the gods operate so seeing her so shocked over what is revealed about the gods and her sisters true nature makes her look naive. I actually assumed that it was going to be Zola that would be the viewpoint character. She is the most removed from the world so she should have the most questions but as the issues wore on Diana ended up being put in the position of the traveler.

On one hand having Diana question her place in the world could bring it closer to a story driven by her character but there were just way to many revelations of things she didn't but "should" have known regarding the nature of the gods.

[WhitOro]

I think for many fans it's like this...

Batman has been written many different ways over the decades he's been in print and in other media, but if Batman started at issue one and suddenly he's a cheery happy playboy who thinks being Batman is fun, calls Robin 'old chum' and grins a lot, the fan base would be howling 'where's THE Dark Knight! This isn't Batman!!'

So when someone like Azzarello comes along and doesn't just adjust/tweak the character but deviates so dramatically from the 'mainstream' or 'iconic' interpretation, it's difficult to swallow. Does it make it wrong? Well, yeah, for *them* it is wrong. It's become a good story about a character who isn't the one they've been reading for decades.

Yeah, point being, Azzarello hasn't done any such thing during the first or second or third issue or any of them. Diana is the same. She’s competent, secure, independent, strong and ready to help everything and everybody, even thought this somebody just appeared out of thin air in the middle of her bedroom.

The only thing I find different from previous incarnation, she’s just a little bit more caustic.

The change of the origin? What did that actually changed in the character? Azzarello hasn’t modified her origins to fit her into a random story he came up with (she would have still defended Zola even thought she isn’t “part of the family”, like we saw), but to expand the WW universe.

He keeps saying “I’m expanding” her world. The fact that she was made of clay is still a fundamental part of her past. Some people say that he left it there just so he could insult it and spite it, but the truth is, Azza is creating stories opportunities, removing entirely the clay origin from space time continuum would have served no purpose, like this it’s still part of her and it can still be used or explored.

And to conclude what’s a “Wonder Woman’s story”? Unless it’s character driven, the majority of plots of fiction are something that a writer creates and then puts a character inside of it. People keep saying “Wow, the Court of Owls is such a great Batman story”, but you transplant the entire army of zombie ninjas into Star City and it would be a “great” Green Arrow’s story.
Again, unless it’s character driven, the plot always comes before the characters.

What is all this 'WORLD BUILDING' that I keep reading?

WB is the entire reconstruction of her mythos and place of action and the amplification of story hooks.
The gods are dramatically different, far more interesting and peculiar than any previous incarnation, so is her relationships with them. The Amasons new ways open for more story potentials, why-what-how, the male-amazons with them do the same, the possibility of Diana half-brothers and sisters around the world, some of the centuries or decades old like Lennox, her connection to the pantheon, her new home-base in Europe makes for a more diversified contest than just another Random City of the US where 3/4 of the superhero community already lives.

[SteveGus]

It's fiction. Wonder Woman is a series of painted lines. What she is is what the writer in charge chooses her to be. Characters don't have a life of their own. It's a very interesting concept the possibility that they could have one, worthy of many Morrison's book, but at the end of the day, THEY DON'T.
They're not real. Therefore, there's not a "RIGHT" or a "WRONG" way to write them.

A character with a seventy year published history fortunately cannot be changed over the course of a year by a single writer.

Try this simple experiment: go searching for fan art images of Power Girl, and ask yourself, "What does Power Girl's costume look like." I predict that if you view the results objectively, you will quickly conclude that the new costume that debuted in Earth 2 is not the real Power Girl costume. The garish costumes from the 90s are also wrong, and fortunately forgotten. Everybody who cares knows what Power Girl's costume looks like. Its absence from the book will be temporary. You will not learn what Power Girl's costume looks like from the current comic. You will learn from fan art. The comic is wrong and the fans are right.

It is the same with Wonder Woman. Again, five times as many people bought the Wonder Woman DVD as bought Azzarello's #1. If he wants to change what people think of when they think Wonder Woman, there are a lot of fans he hasn't sold yet: and ultimately, it's us rather than him that decide.

[Dr. Hurt]

It is the same with Wonder Woman. Again, five times as many people bought the Wonder Woman DVD as bought Azzarello's #1. If he wants to change what people think of when they think Wonder Woman, there are a lot of fans he hasn't sold yet: and ultimately, it's us rather than him that decide.

Eh, that's a bad arguement. TDK made a billion dollars. Should DC change the Joker?
The DVD sold more because it was a DVD, so lets stick to the comics medium.

Azzarello is currently outselling most of WW's previous writers, brought a ton of new fans to the book, a breath of fresh air, and everyone now wants WW in their books. The book is also stable as DC's 14th best seller, despite the drops which affect the entire new 52 line. I'd say he's succeeding.

[brettc1]

"For this Diana has no character at all beyond that of the most stereotypical indomitable hero, lacking even the ironic touches of self-depreciation

I find her quite self deprecating. For example:

Issue 1: "that was stupid...I meant me'

Issue 5: "I'm far from perfect"

Does she look like the "stereotypical indomitable hero" at the end of #7?



I think she has a great, dry sense of humor; she issue 2, where she teases Zola about how perhaps she should have left her behind. Or later that issue, when she jokes about preferring the staff.

As for rarely smiling, I guess it depends on how you define rarely. She takes real pleasure in Zola's company (see#5), and she even enjoys a good fight (she her sparring in with Aleka in issue 2).



Persistent melancholia? I wouldn't be able to get out of bed if I were her. The sadness she shows is an appropriate, and even mild, response to circumstances.

No quirks? What about her love of heavy metal and tomatoes? :) Or her tendency to fight first and as questions later when she thinks someone needs to be freed? What about her sense of being loved and yet also a misfit, because of the way she was raised? What about the way she's at the same time a veteran warrior and an idealistic woman who listens to Lennox's story and thinks, "that's kinda cool," and who still struggles to find her place in the world?

I think Shooters point, which I kind of agree with, is she is pretty bland. Or emotionally repressed to a level to rival Bruce Banner. For much of the time she does have emotional outbursts but there is no middle ground. She is either withdrawn and distant or sobbing/beserk.

I think I would liken it to Azzarello painting a picture of her with all one colour, or just various shades of black...

[petesake]

What is all this 'WORLD BUILDING' that I keep reading? The fact that the gods are a focus? Well, that has been done before. That she lives in London? And this is different because she is not in America? That her one non-godly contact is Zola? This is different than other characters like Steve, Etta, the Kapetalis (spelling)?

What is this 'WORLD BUILDING'? Because I think we are getting short changed if this is what we got so far after 8 issues

Her relationship with the gods obviously. The gods have been done before but the spin on them is very different now and more relevant to her.

ps that article was pretty stupid. there were no plot holes.

[brettc1]

I think for many fans it's like this...

Batman has been written many different ways over the decades he's been in print and in other media, but if Batman started at issue one and suddenly he's a cheery happy playboy who thinks being Batman is fun, calls Robin 'old chum' and grins a lot, the fan base would be howling 'where's THE Dark Knight! This isn't Batman!!'

A lot of long time Wonder Woman fans are the same. To them, this is Wonder Woman:





So when someone like Azzarello comes along and doesn't just adjust/tweak the character but deviates so dramatically from the 'mainstream' or 'iconic' interpretation, it's difficult to swallow. Does it make it wrong? Well, yeah, for *them* it is wrong. It's become a good story about a character who isn't the one they've been reading for decades.

It's kinda why I'm having a hard time with it. I love the writing style, I adore the art, I find the overall story fascinating, but the feeling I get is that Azzarello had a great story to tell about the modern day Greek gods, a missing Zeus and a mortal woman pregnant with Zeus's baby and you could plug just about any generic hero in the role he's alotted to Diana. In order to make *his* story work? He had to change the entire origin of the character.

That says something to me. He's changing Diana so that she works with the story he had in mind rather than writing a story about Wonder Woman.

I just know those images are going to put soem folks off, Gael, but to me they show something I have not seen in the books for half a year - happiness. A person is who actually enjoys being who she is and it not just constantly tortured by her own existence.

[Gaelforce]

The change of the origin? What did that actually changed in the character? Azzarello hasn’t modified her origins to fit her into a random story he came up with (she would have still defended Zola even thought she isn’t “part of the family”, like we saw), but to expand the WW universe.

This is where I disagree.

The gods were already an integral part of Diana's history, suppporting cast and rogue's gallery.

This whole story that Azzarello is writing seems based around Diana suddenly becoming a demi-god. If you leave her original origin intact (made from clay, the gods breathed life into her) the current story as it is written doesn't work. (see Hades telling Hermes to pick one of the offsprings of Zeus - Diana or Zola's baby)

It seems to me that the primary reason he altered the origin of the character is so that he could tell the 'great story' he had in mind. That was how he supposedly approached Didio - not with 'great ideas for Diana' but with a 'great story to tell.'

This 'great story' is based around a demi-goddess daughter of Zeus and a pregnant woman bearing Zeus's child. It doesn't hold up if Diana isn't Zeus's daughter.