Was Mary Jane's death in PPSM #13 initially supposed to be permanent?

[Venomous Mask]

When she "died" in the plane crash in PPSM #13 (Vol.2), was that supposed to be a permanent death, like Ben Reilly's stint as Spiderman was initially supposed to be permanent? Except for the story where Spiderman fights the Hulk, the whole thing was treated so nonchalantly. There was never any really sense of tragedy; no retrospectives, no tribute issues, nothing.

And to kill off such a popular character in such a way, I don't think anyone liked it or bought it. To be honest, the only reason why I collected Spiderman briefly after Revenge of the Green Goblin was to see when she would be back. Once she returned, I gave up almost completely on the series until the rejuvenated Spectacular Spiderman (remember that this was the reboot doldrums).

I seriously think it was just a publicity stunt and a gimmick to keep people reading.

[Rob London]

When she "died" in the plane crash in PPSM #13 (Vol.2), was that supposed to be a permanent death, like Ben Reilly's stint as Spiderman was initially supposed to be permanent? Except for the story where Spiderman fights the Hulk, the whole thing was treated so nonchalantly. There was never any really sense of tragedy; no retrospectives, no tribute issues, nothing.

And to kill off such a popular character in such a way, I don't think anyone liked it or bought it. To be honest, the only reason why I collected Spiderman briefly after Revenge of the Green Goblin was to see when she would be back. Once she returned, I gave up almost completely on the series until the rejuvenated Spectacular Spiderman (remember that this was the reboot doldrums).

I seriously think it was just a publicity stunt and a gimmick to keep people reading.

I say it was a fakeout - note that the hatch is very visibly falling off the plane before it explodes...

[stillanerd]

From what I understand, the story goes something like this. Marvel, even back then, wanted to somehow make Spider-Man single again and get rid of his marriage to Mary Jane. However, they felt that killing MJ off and thus making Spidey a widower or having them get divorced would be a very bad idea (sound familiar?). Thus, we got the Clone Saga, and we all know how THAT particular mess turned out.

So, John Byrne and Howard Mackie decided to "reboot" Spider-Man a la "One More Day" ten years before it actually happened. The difference was that it would be the result of the Shaper of Worlds and that Spider-Man and his supporting cast would literally be reverted and de-aged to a period closer to the Stan Lee/Steve Ditko/John Romita Sr. era. Enter then EIC Bob Harras, who nixed the idea and essentially told them to just kill off Mary Jane. So, that's when they came up with the whole "Stalker" plotline, introduced Gwen's dark-haired, lookalike British cousin, Jill, to provide some new sexual tension for Peter, and having MJ die in an airplane explosion.

However, Mackie and Byrne put in a literal "back door" just in case. In Amazing Spider-Man vol. 2 #13, you can just see the door of the plane failing away from the plane just before it explodes. So the plan was to always eventually reveal that MJ was not only still alive but held captive by her stalker. I recall somewhere that the original issue where she was supposed to have returned was Amazing Spider-Man vol. 2 #50, but, due to Bob Harras being fired and Joe Quesada taking his place, along with his hiring of J. Michael Stracynski to take over the writing duties, Mackie accelerated the timetable so that Mary Jane returned in Amazing Spider-Man vol. 2 #28.

[remoteman]

I haven't got very far past her death in my reboot readthrough but there is certainly some suggestion in ASM #13 that the Stalker was involved - and hence that the story wasn't over yet. As the stories after her 'death' showed, killing her off would be a very bad idea - particularly if it were done while her and Peter were together.

[matthewaos]

Yes, I remember that I was sayng it was an obvious fake death, cause the door from the plane was clearly visible, plus I remember that there were some wierd phone calls in Peter and MJ's house, suggesting that it was the Stalker. As I remember it it was never fully explained. And I think I do not want to remember.

However stillanerd is right, there was this whole thing with the shaper of worlds, however I'm not sure if this was going to be better than what we got. Personally I prefered the clone saga, as a way to un-marry Spider-Man. Not that I wanted him to be single but anyway.

But The Mackie/Byrne run is largerly criticized so that attempt could not have worked well.

I however want to add that MAckie had some good moments during him web years, and personally I liked some of the stories in Spider-Man. His PPSM run however (post clone saga, before the reboot) was good also.

[mugiwara]

It's never too late to do the right thing!
Put her in a plane before she get boring again, and blow it up again!

[ngroove]

It's never too late to do the right thing!
Put her in a plane before she get boring again, and blow it up again!

....Mary Jane Watson-hater.....

[Kevinroc]

It's never too late to do the right thing!
Put her in a plane before she get boring again, and blow it up again!

So let's not kill characters of the last ten years but let's kill classic characters who have been around since the 1960s. Got it.

[David Walton]

Mackie put out some consistently enjoyable stories during his post Clone Saga, pre-reboot days.

In fact, the whole Mackie/Byrne reboot struck me as fixing something that wasn't broken. The stories were better than they had been in quite a while.

[mugiwara]

....Mary Jane Watson-hater.....

More a Mary Jane Parker hater, but if her and Peter get together again even if not married, MJ Watson will regain all the boringness power of MJ Parker.

So let's not kill characters of the last ten years but let's kill classic characters who have been around since the 1960s. Got it.

Exactly. Those 60's characters don't make sense any more, they just do the same things and fight the same people again and again. They need to go away and make room for the new blood.

[Mistah K88]

If it WAS meant to be permanent, it would be a stupid idea because it would be near impossible to have Peter have a love life again... Gwen was killed because of her connection to Spidey; if a second woman died while dating Peter, HOW would he ever get over something like that?

[Kymeric]

Thats why dc reboots their universe every ten years. You have to change and evolve the characters till theyre so far away from the basics that it is impossible to go back to it. Then its a problem to find out how to get back to basics without pissing fans off. DC is way better than Marvel in this. Marvel had tried endless xmen and spiderman reboots but they never really took. DCs been rolling from Crisis to Nu52 every few years.

I wish theyd do real changes before they reboot. Like spidey growing up and having a family and getting over Uncle Ben. And the xmen winning or losing on integration/equality. Just something that shows some progress instead of the endless resets at the end of the story.

[The Mean Bean]

Exactly. Those 60's characters don't make sense any more, they just do the same things and fight the same people again and again. They need to go away and make room for the new blood.

Those 60's characters like Spider-Man?

[ChrisIII]

I remember, even after it was revealed she was alive, the two were still seperated for a time-such as in Jenkin's Peter Parker Spider-Man and early JMS Amazing.

[Venomous Mask]

I remember, even after it was revealed she was alive, the two were still seperated for a time-such as in Jenkin's Peter Parker Spider-Man and early JMS Amazing.

Yeah, that really got to me at the time, but in retrospect, I think it was a good idea, as it allowed for them to gradually build up the relationship and make it something special again.