Update on the Joe Chill situation

[TZDEKA]

I almost don't know if I should post this since the past few issues of Snyder's run have turned the guy into a bit of a controversial figure around these parts, but I feel it's probably something worth delving into since people have debated this topic rather heavily in the past and it does seem to offer some closure.

http://www.craveonline.com/comics/in...e-scott-snyder

Essentially, Snyder did another interview here, and in it he got into the Joe Chill situation. Skip towards the end if that's what you're after, as some of the critics of Snyder will absolutely hate the glowing praise these guys give Snyder early on in the podcast. Anyway, I skimmed through the podcast, but from what I can gather they actually decided against making the Wayne Murders unsolved. And to Snyder's credit, he seems to have actually taken into account the concerns the fans had. He did hear the "muddies the mission" fears and took them into account in why they eventually did decide that, for now, the murders are not unsolved. The two main interesting points IMO were that:

1. Apparently the reason he wrote the "Some Joe Chill, some no-name" line like that was because it was still being debated at the time. I guess he jumped the gun during that other podcast from last year when he said it was decided on at that point...

2. He actually says in his mind it was supposed to emphasize Bruce's heroism instead of muddying it. According to him, it was supposed to be even more heroic on Bruce's part because he was saving the city that "took" his parents and never let him gain closure on their deaths, as opposed to being a representation that Bruce was really just in it to find the murderer of his parents.

While some of the details are fuzzy, there might be some revisionist history, and it's possible the decision will be changed by the Batman writers and editors again, I do have to hand it to Snyder for seeming to put some thought into what people were worried about in regards to making that wound "open". I actually like Snyder's emphasis on the heroism of it, but I do think overall it's probably better to keep it as it was pre-Flashpoint to deter those who would use it the way many feared. But I suppose the good elements of it really still stand regardless of whether the murders are solved or not: the fact that Batman is faced with a city that does have lots of horrible elements to it and things that directly attack him, but still tries to save it and make it better, is heroic regardless of whether or not he never got closure on his personal tragedy. Hopefully this is the end of it, though again, it's unfortunately not a sure thing given what's happened in the past. I also hope that this doesn't go back into praising the CoO storyline vs bashing it, because we have plenty of that every time a new issue comes out.

[Dr. Hurt]

So wait, did DC force him to do this with the Wayne murders?

I dont get it. Why cant they leave it at "JC killed the Waynes"? Nolan did the best thing with the origin. He made it a random crime and even got Chill caught and murdered to show that Wayne isnt doing it to find him or to take revenge on him. He's doing it for Gotham.

[foxandwall]

So wait, did DC force him to do this with the Wayne murders?
I dont get it. Why cant they leave it at "JC killed the Waynes"? Nolan did the best thing with the origin. He made it a random crime and even got Chill caught and murdered to show that Wayne isnt doing it to find him or to take revenge on him. He's doing it for Gotham.

It is seems like the opposite way...I think Snyder is the one who prefer the Wayne murders are not solved.

[Dr. Hurt]

It is seems like the opposite way...I think Snyder is the one who prefer the Wayne murders are not solved.

I'd rather the murders are solved to show that Bruce wants to help, that he's not doing it for them. Just keep any Owls out of it.

[foxandwall]

I'd rather the murders are solved to show that Bruce wants to help, that he's not doing it for them. Just keep any Owls out of it.

I am with you, and it is seems that DC is with us in this problem.

for now, the murders are not unsolved

[TZDEKA]

According to that interview, Snyder originally was on the side of making it unsolved, but then changed his mind because he didn't want people to take it as though Batman is only doing this to possibly catch his parents murderer and he didn't want someone to come in somewhere down the line and make a story about Joe Chill as a supervillain or something. And as I mentioned in my initial post, Snyder did intend for it to be something that highlighted Bruce's heroism as opposed to muddying his mission into being about personal revenge. But I guess he realized it could easily be taken the wrong way, which is one of the reasons he eventually changed his mind and started siding with the Bat-writers/editors who wanted the murder to have been solved.

[Theozilla]

Interesting article/podcast. Even though I am glad they decided in the end to keep it as the Wayne murders being solved and Joe Chill caught, I am glad that they were putting a lot of thought into the process.

[DrSimonHurt]

It has to stay in play because it was an important part of Morrison's ongoing Batman epic. Joe Chill killed himself with the gun that Batman delivered back to him.

Also, one of the big parts of Batman's character is that seeking revenge doesn't heal the wounds. If he hasn't yet sought out and avenged his parents, it robs him of a lot of his deep character development. I won't really let some reboot do that. The reboot already ruined a few things in the Bat history.

[Jake V]

I kind of hate the notion that "Gotham" took his parents. I much prefer that simply "crime" took his parents.

[TZDEKA]

Eh, I don't know how "important" it was. It wasn't brought up a single time since it was first shown during "Joe Chill in Hell". But I do think overall it's for the best that it stays that way.

I kind of hate the notion that "Gotham" took his parents. I much prefer that simply "crime" took his parents.

Well like I mentioned, to be fair, he meant it in a way that highlighted the heroism of Batman fighting for a city that refused to give him closure.

[FHIZ]

It has to stay in play because it was an important part of Morrison's ongoing Batman epic. Joe Chill killed himself with the gun that Batman delivered back to him.

Which matters in terms of Talia al Ghul and Leviathan how? It was a nice story at the time, and it still is, but it's not nearly as important to current events as some would make it seem. I doubt the lynch pin in Morrison's finale was depending on that one issue.

Besides, it's been awhile since I've read that issue, couldn't it be interpreted as a hazy delusion due to Bruce being wacked out of his mind thanks to the heart attack?

[jgiannantoni05]

The right decision was made to keep Chill the known murderer, I'm proud of DC and Snyder. And I think Nolan & Goyer now really solidified Chill more now too, Nolan and Goyer understood how important it was to be clear on Batman's motivations and also nod to Bill Finger and the comics.

Tangentially related, I originally hated Morrison's "Joe Chill in Hell" and now I absolutely love it, because I think I see what Grant was truly going for. It was a very genuine attempt at Golden Age Batman (versus the modern takes on young/Golden Age Batman where he is basically just the same Batman we always read just in his old costume and such). As I read it, it was a real flashback, it was Morrison trading all of Batman's Golden Age murders for one coerced suicide against the one guy who it makes sense the most against, Joe Chill. Morrison said RIP was a bit about karma. Batman's past mistakes (the isolation experiment to understand Joker*, coercing Chill to his death) coming back to bite him and to give him his final test as a hero.


*the isolation experiment = meta represents the gritty 80s/early 90s, those writers experimenting with isolating Batman to drive him mad

[Jared]

An unsolved crime makes it inevitable that somebody does a story, (and probably more than one) with Batman having to confront someone who could be The Killer.
Hell, the first Batman/Superman arc, which was during a "it's a mystery" retcon period, toyed with the idea that it might have been Metallo. Ugh.

It's better to just leave at Chill, and leave him dead.

[Mr. Holmes]

While Snyder is a good writer, I think he really should just let go of his idea that Gotham needs to be personified and twisted. Save it for a story where Jack Hawksmoor from Stormwatch comes to the city.

[TZDEKA]

I get the sense it's not totally that the Gotham's supposed to be evil, but that it's supposed to "challenge" it's heroes, which in turn makes them stronger.