The Wonder Woman in Justice League/JLU thread!

[DisneyBoy]

I could see in the Aresia thread that people here had a lot of thoughts about the general depiction of all things Wonder Woman-related in Justice League and Justice League Unlimited. So, let's discuss them all here!

Things I loved

-I loved when a particular group of animators drew Diana. Episodes like "Maid of Honor Part One", "Eclipsed Part One", "Starcrossed Part Two" and "This Little Piggy" had her looking terrific. Examples:







-I really liked the friendship that gradually developed between Diana and J'onn over the course of the series. They could have done more to play it up, but then the GL/Flash friendship was almost overplayed, so perhaps keeping it to a minimum was more effective.

-Susan Eisenberg. At first, I didn't care for her much, but she really grew into the part and became a terrific Diana.


Things I didn't love

-Her attitude. This wasn't an especially patient woman, or someone you'd quickly turn to with a problem. I get that they were going with the "Warrior Princess from a different society" angle, but far too often she was snapping at people verbally or punching through crowds.

-The history. They could have easily adapted the Perez origin, especially given that they spent about four and a half episodes in season one explaining how her society works (kinda). Instead, they turned Ares into Hades + Heracles, and then danced around the idea of making him her father. They suggested the Amazons enhance themselves using magic (hun?) and are so strict about keeping men away that they'd banish their own Princess for getting some male help in order to save their freaking lives! And of course the first, and probably biggest change - Diana stealing her costume, and never knowing her lasso could compel someone to tell the truth. Why?? Ugh.

-Her romance with Batman. I won't deny Susan had chemistry with Kevin Conroy (who voices Batman), but I felt it diminished her as a character to be attracted to the "bad boy" of the team...especially in light of the fact that her mother's last lover was a brutal monster like Hades. Obviously, Bruce isn't that bad a boy, but still. What happened to listening to your mother, Di? She'd be just another notch on his utility belt, and that bugged me. Like in order to find a way to make her likeable, they had to pair her up with the fan-favourite, Batman.

What did you love or hate? What are you still confused about? Did you ultimately feel like the portrayal was a positive one? Discuss!

[Dr. Hurt]

OMG a woman and a man are in love! How degrading for the woman!

[Gaelforce]

That's why I did like Batman and Wonder Woman in JLU - it went both ways.

In the comics, once we got past the JL arc, it was completely ignored by Batman and Diana was painted by some writers as pining for him. A man and woman in love? Great. Diana panting over Batman while he doesn't seem to notice her anymore? Sexist drivel.

[Dr. Hurt]

That's why I did like Batman and Wonder Woman in JLU - it went both ways.

In the comics, once we got past the JL arc, it was completely ignored by Batman and Diana was painted by some writers as pining for him. A man and woman in love? Great. Diana panting over Batman while he doesn't seem to notice her anymore? Sexist drivel.

I've heard that pairing them was part of Rucka's plan but he wasnt allowed, or didnt have the time to do it. So it fell through. And that's why he did that scene with Diana and Batman in Blackest Night where Diana remembered her love for Bruce and stopped being a black lantern or whatever. Which was crap because they never set it up in the comics. THey just had a small story about it in the JL and then they dropped it.

I really liked how they handled it in JLU and i dont understand why it would be degrading for WW. So batman has had other affairs, does that mean that she'd be another notch on his belt? Or didnt WW have notches on hers?

[dshipp17]

One of my favorites of that series was the way they finally resolved Superman's and Wonder Woman's power levels when they did battle with Mongul; everything afterwards that contradicts this depiction should be trashed by the current reboots; anything before that depiction should be discarded also. But, I think the Superman animated series should be defining of Superman's power level.

I didn't notice any blooming friendship between Diana and Jon, but if there was one, I agree that it should have been developed more in that series and than in the comics; a lot of things between them need to happen more on panel than off panel.

I don't understand all of this vitriol against Batman; I think he's one of the few and far between cool guys that a woman who seeks a cool guy deserves; I really like Batman, but, my opinion of him is shaped mostly by his movies and his animated series; I have a long way to go when it comes to his comics; perhaps my opinion of him could be adjusted by his comic book; but, in Wonder Woman's book, Dr. Psycho needs more development.

[Fong03]

One of my favorites of that series was the way they finally resolved Superman's and Wonder Woman's power levels when they did battle with Mongul; everything afterwards that contradicts this depiction should be trashed by the current reboots; anything before that depiction should be discarded also. But, I think the Superman animated series should be defining of Superman's power level.

That was one of my least favorite moments of the series. It seems to me that whenever the writers need to show how powerful Superman is, it often comes at the expense of Wonder Woman. We can place aside the discussion of exactly how far apart there power levels are or should be because that is an entirely different conversation with varying opinions. If they wanted to show how powerful Clark really is, they didn't need to do it by having Wonder Woman get her face smashed to the pavement while not displaying any of the skill that we would expect from her. It's also interesting that they did not feel the need to do something similar with J'onn who was also often depicted as showing great strength as well.

Another of my dislikes is related to the above. WW was always the damsel in distress. She was always getting knocked out and then Superman or John would have to protect her. It got really annoying and we never got to see her shine when it came to taking on the big threats. You'd never see Diana as the last one standing against Amazo in JLU. I understand that doesn't bother some folks but it did irk me.

Now, I LOVED Susan Eisenberg. She will always be the voice of WW for me. I agree that the series could have depicted her as being more patient and compassionate but I think Susan did a great job with the material she was given. I also loved the way she was drawn throughout the series.

I didn't mind the Batman relationship in the context because the the feelings were mutual. She wasn't pining over a man who showed no interest in her whatsoever. I wish the series had established Diana's friendship with Clark. Those two barely had any screen time together. Her relationship with J'onn was well done and quite touching. Her reaction when he showed up during Destroyer was priceless :)

[americanwonder]

I really like JL/JLU WW. She has fire, determination and strength.

"Maid of Honor" is definately some of her better episodes. Also really like the "Hawk and Dove" story, "To Another Shore" and the western one where they go back in time (forgot the name).

eta: As for the JL/JLU WW and Batman pairing, the best part was Bruce giving the tired "My enemies would come after anyone close to me," and Dian'a not buying, just crushes the stone gargoyle in her hand. Boom.

[Javier Velasco]

Things I Loved

She could fly. Yea!
Bullets and bracelets Yea!
The character was featured fairly often. Yea!
She was there in the first place. It had been 15 years since we had seen an animated WW.

Things I Didn't Like

The altered origin. It just wasn't needed and it didn't serve the character.
The Batman thing. Originally there was supposed to have been some Superman/WW stuff going on (which I would have preferred), but it was switched because the creatives didn't like it. I would have just rathered no ongoing romantic stuff for Diana. We already had Hawkgirl and GL anyway.
She seemed to be used less than other core JLA-ers once we got into JLU.

[DisneyBoy]

I really liked how they handled it in JLU and i dont understand why it would be degrading for WW. So batman has had other affairs, does that mean that she'd be another notch on his belt? Or didnt WW have notches on hers?

It is different because DCAU Diana comes from a society that seemed to be forced into isolation because their queen fell in love with a seriously emotionally-messed-up man (Hades, and yes I know he's a god, I'm talking about genders here) and that lead to huge problems for the Gods. So the Amazons guard the gate to hell and keep all men away...even to the point where Hippolyta shows no concern when some omens (as she puts it in the pilot) predict man's world is in huge trouble. There really was an anti-man sentiment among these Amazons, and Diana was a virgin in the DCAU (as the subtext made clear in "Fury") so seeing her flirt so heavily with Batman - Mr Emotionally Messed Up, Mr "I'm a Part-Timer!" - didn't make sense to me. She knew from her mother's experiences to be careful in love...she's not someone who dated alot on the show (as far as we know) so Bruce was a really significant love interest. Her handling of that felt really weird given her background.

And as I said before, so much about her character was growling and being crabby and punching things...except when Bruce/Bats was around and she could flirt with him. Why did she need to flirt with anyone? I liked what little we saw of Steve Trevor - that felt natural to me. But it seemed like the only time Diana was pleasant was around Bruce...so yeah that rubbed me the wrong way. I'm not sure I need to explain it more than that Dr. Hurt.

Bottom line: Her flirting with Batman is one of things most remembered about this version of the character. Not a mission of peace, or her good nature. I, of course, liked seeing her fighting skills on display (in For the Man Who Has Everything she really shines), but there wasn't much else.

Batman getting caught up in all-too human emotions for once -- and backing away when Diana made it obvious it was mutual.

I'll admit that was interesting for Bruce. The problem was it felt like Act Two in a romantic film. Guy realizes he's falling for the girl and backs away...making the audience want to see them hook up even MORE. I'm really glad the writers didn't take their relationship further, and almost relieved it just fell off the map.

[DisneyBoy]

What did you guys think of Circe....

[BeccaBlast]

Bruce and Diana were fine in JLU -- Batman getting caught up in all-too human emotions for once -- and backing away when Diana made it obvious it was mutual.

It's gotta be somewhere in the old threads -- I could have sworn Rucka said he was told he had to use Batman -- as he was the key to turning all the revived heroes into BL's. Although wasn't it Aphrodite who had as much to do with it as anyone else?