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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by batGRRRl4ever View Post
    Black Canary is having her history shortened and quite altered issue by issue as we speak, and you can subtract Superboy and Supergirl from that equation altogether as they are both full-on reboots just starting out.



    Ha, that's how I looked at the 22 yr stretch of Oracle, one long never ending Elseworld story, an alternate version of Batgirl's true self. Now at long last the ACTUAL Barbara has finally revealed herself from that 22yr house of mirrors (get the homage to issue #4?, lol)

    LOL wow dude. Just wow. Nice to show your true colors there. What's this about the "one true self?"

    Babs is Babs lol she never has one true self except that she's Barbara Gordon. Whether she's Oracle or Batgirl she's still Barbara so she has NO true self.

    If you fail to understand that about her character then I'm sorry you're really obsessed with Babs Batgirl man. That's looking at her awfully one dimensional.
    Last edited by maximiliani; 05-17-2012 at 07:04 PM.

  2. #107
    The Dominoed Daredoll batGRRRl4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shark View Post
    If you move them to Earth 2 the only thing they would have in common with the Cass and Steph people love would be their names and looks.
    Let me toss this one at you, hasn't the Bertinelli version of the Huntress proven quite popular over the years? Same face, costume, moniker, and first name, but a different character none the less, yes? Never say never, you could absolutely fall in love with the adventures of Earth-2 Black Bat & Red Sparrow (yeah I made that last one up).
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  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldStarz View Post
    I've just realized! You secretly hate Babs and want everyone else to hate her, too. That's why you're so overbearing about how Babgirl is superior to Oracle when she's obviously not!
    It all makes sense now
    Last edited by ArnoldoAAD; 05-17-2012 at 07:21 PM.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by batGRRRl4ever View Post
    Let me toss this one at you, hasn't the Bertinelli version of the Huntress proven quite popular over the years? Same face, costume, moniker, and first name, but a different character none the less, yes? Never say never, you could absolutely fall in love with the adventures of Earth-2 Black Bat & Red Sparrow (yeah I made that last one up).
    But, on the other hand, how would you feel if all the stories in Batgirl so far were just delusional dreams of an Earth-2 Barbara Gordon, and Cass or Steph were still the active Batgirl for the DCnU?

    Some may prefer that scenario. So perhaps somebody should tone it down a little?

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by maximiliani View Post
    Babs is Babs lol she never has one true self except that she's Barbara Gordon. Whether she's Oracle or Batgirl she's still Barbara so she has NO true self.
    Yep

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    But, on the other hand, how would you feel if all the stories in Batgirl so far were just delusional dreams of an Earth-2 Barbara Gordon, and Cass or Steph were still the active Batgirl for the DCnU?

    Some may prefer that scenario. So perhaps somebody should tone it down a little?
    Your analogy isn't really apt. That aside, the issue with Cass & Steph's existences is that their histories that allowed them to exist as they were (not as they can be reinterpreted by DC to get a fresh start mind you) were completely predicated on this domino effect of what happened to Barbara, etc. Putting Cass & Steph on Earth-2 as homages to their Batman & Robin as Black Bat & Red Sparrow (I just really like that) gives them their OWN history that isn't required to be dragging on the capes of others. A good character can stand on their own, are you saying that you think that they aren't strong enough characters to have a more individual yet still bat-associated beginning? That their histories can only have them exist in their Pre-Flashpoint incarnations?

    Babs has been a Librarian, member of Congress, was an differently-abled info-jock, and now has a degree in Forensic Psychology. The character has had her share of changes yet remains still who she has always been at her core. Do you think that Cass & Steph are SO weak that they can't survive as characters by getting tweaked and rebooted as needed to change with the changed DCU? That's not coming across as a lot of faith in their potential for longevity, IMO.
    Last edited by batGRRRl4ever; 05-17-2012 at 07:19 PM.
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  7. #112
    Elder Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batGRRRl4ever View Post
    Babs has been a Librarian, member of Congress, was an differently-abled info-jock, and now has a degree in Forensic Psychology. The character has had her share of changes yet remains still who she has always been at her core.
    And some of us may feel that even if you discount her past as Oracle, DCnU Barbara-as-Batgirl doesn't feel at all like pre-The Killing Joke Barbara-as-Batgirl. They come across as two separate characters, with the current version failing to measure up to the Batgirl from Detective Comics and Batman Family.

  8. #113
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    Yeah it's kind of sad we still haven't gotten any follow-up of Cass after Gates. It's just like she vanishes. We know the event happened since it was referenced. I just figure DC wasted a perfect follow-up with they could have had more Bat Kids teaming up and it being awesome. I kind of want to see Dick and Cass teaming up again. The conversation she has with Dick on Gotham City and tragedy was one of the best parts of Gates for me.
    Behold, I shall be a blight upon the land, and everything I touch shall wither and die!

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    And some of us may feel that even if you discount her past as Oracle, DCnU Barbara-as-Batgirl doesn't feel at all like pre-The Killing Joke Barbara-as-Batgirl. They come across as two separate characters, with the current version failing to measure up to the Batgirl from Detective Comics and Batman Family.
    This a Cass-centric thread though & I noticed you completely ignored both my points and questions pertaining to the Cass character in my very last post.
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  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by batGRRRl4ever View Post
    Let me toss this one at you, hasn't the Bertinelli version of the Huntress proven quite popular over the years? Same face, costume, moniker, and first name, but a different character none the less, yes? Never say never, you could absolutely fall in love with the adventures of Earth-2 Black Bat & Red Sparrow (yeah I made that last one up).
    Well, I hardly think that someone that refuses to acknowledge 20 odd years of one version of Babs is in a position to comment on people being skeptical of massive changes to their favourite characters. Besides, I never said I'd hate them on Earth 2, just that isn't what I'm looking for. If asked I would want them on Earth main/1/prime/whatever with as much of their continuity intact as possible. I'd also prefer that the classic JSA were, well classic (instead of idolising the precious trinity), so I'm kinda used to disappointment now though.
    Last edited by Sunbird; 05-17-2012 at 07:52 PM.
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  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    And some of us may feel that even if you discount her past as Oracle, DCnU Barbara-as-Batgirl doesn't feel at all like pre-The Killing Joke Barbara-as-Batgirl. They come across as two separate characters, with the current version failing to measure up to the Batgirl from Detective Comics and Batman Family.
    FakeBatgirl is nothing of what the character she once was, it doesnt matter what her job was

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by batGRRRl4ever View Post
    This a Cass-centric thread though & I noticed you completely ignored both my points and questions pertaining to the Cass character in my very last post.
    You mean this part?

    Quote Originally Posted by batGRRRl4ever View Post
    Your analogy isn't really apt. That aside, the issue with Cass & Steph's existences is that their histories that allowed them to exist as they were (not as they can be reinterpreted by DC to get a fresh start mind you) were completely predicated on this domino effect of what happened to Barbara, etc. Putting Cass & Steph on Earth-2 as homages to their Batman & Robin as Black Bat & Red Sparrow (I just really like that) gives them their OWN history that isn't required to be dragging on the capes of others. A good character can stand on their own, are you saying that you think that they aren't strong enough characters to have a more individual yet still bat-associated beginning? That their histories can only have them exist in their Pre-Flashpoint incarnations?
    I didn't reply to that because I already said that Cass and Steph shouldn't be transplanted to Earth 2.

    I'm still waiting to see if / what DC does with them on Prime Earth.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by batGRRRl4ever View Post
    Black Canary is having her history shortened and quite altered issue by issue as we speak, and you can subtract Superboy and Supergirl from that equation altogether as they are both full-on reboots just starting out.



    Ha, that's how I looked at the 22 yr stretch of Oracle, one long never ending Elseworld story, an alternate version of Batgirl's true self. Now at long last the ACTUAL Barbara has finally revealed herself from that 22yr house of mirrors (get the homage to issue #4?, lol)

    How can DCnU batgirl be superior to Oracle? They both have there strengths and weaknesses.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCfan101 View Post
    How can DCnU batgirl be superior to Oracle? They both have there strengths and weaknesses.
    just for curiosity
    what are the strengths of DCnU batgirl?

    and being able to walk doesnt count as an strength

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbird View Post
    Well, I hardly think that someone that refuses to acknowledge 20 odd years of one version of Babs is in a position to comment on people being skeptical of massive changes to their favourite characters.
    Touche.

    Quote Originally Posted by DCfan101 View Post
    How can DCnU batgirl be superior to Oracle? They both have there strengths and weaknesses.
    I never said one was superior over another, I simply have a version I prefer as a reader.

    Quote Originally Posted by maximiliani View Post
    Babs is Babs lol she never has one true self except that she's Barbara Gordon. Whether she's Oracle or Batgirl she's still Barbara so she has NO true self.
    Even in the previous continuity as Oracle, she ALWAYS internally saw herself STILL as Batgirl:



    Batgirl IS who she is, always has been, always will be (except future tales like Batman Beyond).

    Quote Originally Posted by ArnoldoAAD View Post
    just for curiosity
    what are the strengths of DCnU batgirl?
    Strengths of DCnU (no reference to previous incarnations) Batgirl:
    Being a survivor and not staying mentally a victim of a gross assault
    Being an avenger and protector of Gotham from the very types who have in the past grievously harmed her
    Strength of spirit
    Sharp intellect
    Eidetic memory
    As fit as an olympic level gymnast
    Loving and protective of her father
    Never ever quits or gives up - incredibly tenacious
    Sharp eye and memory for detail - helps with her detective skills
    Is college educated in the challenging field of Forensic Psychology, which she accomplished during her 3 yr convalescence
    Always goes for the Knockout against a villian (as specifically quoted in BOP #8)
    Is good enough in her hand to hand combat skills to spar with Black Canary
    Can accomplish many of the same feats as Batman with far fewer resources
    Can inspire hope & faith in the likes of Batman, Black Canary, Nightwing and the common populace of Gotham
    Despises profanity
    Good sense of humor
    Willing to give someone a second chance (Gretel, Danny, & her mother)
    Can take on foes nearly twice her size (Mirror) and even be meta's (Grotesque), and still WIN


    And that's just in the first eight issues
    Last edited by batGRRRl4ever; 05-18-2012 at 05:57 AM. Reason: add
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