I wish Cass was batgirl.......

[ArnoldoAAD]

But a book that has Steph and Cass in it, can not only attract steph fans, but cass's at well. So a comic or even a series starting these 2 perhaps can attract more people then Steph's book.

DC could then, "kill 2 birds with 1 stone". If you add up all the Cass Fans and Steph Fans, or fans of both, im sure you can get a large number who would be interested in a book dealing with Cass and Steph. Of course you can't have there continuity wiped for all of this to happen.

how about a team book with Cass, Steph and Oracle and lets also have Squire from Knight and Squire and lets call it Batgirls INC

yesh, its kind of unoriginal but it definitely would sell

[Fate's Faith]

how about a team book with Cass, Steph and Oracle and lets also have Squire from Knight and Squire and lets call it Batgirls INC

yesh, its kind of unoriginal but it definitely would sell

Why not borrow an unused name and call it Sirens?

[ArnoldoAAD]

Why not borrow an unused name and call it Sirens?

the idea is to get more readers

though i liked Sirens

[Nick Soapdish]

But a book that has Steph and Cass in it, can not only attract steph fans, but cass's at well. So a comic or even a series starting these 2 perhaps can attract more people then Steph's book.

DC could then, "kill 2 birds with 1 stone". If you add up all the Cass Fans and Steph Fans, or fans of both, im sure you can get a large number who would be interested in a book dealing with Cass and Steph. Of course you can't have there continuity wiped for all of this to happen.

Since Steph's was deemed unsuccessful enough and Cass' was cancelled and then had a disappointing miniseries, it'd be reasonable for them to make sure that they got the reintroduction right - and in such a way that doesn't overshadow Babs. Plus, they'll probably be waiting to let the taste of Steph's "failure" fade. (In quotes because it wasn't a sales success.) Finally, putting two canceled characters (ignoring the reason that Cass was canceled because I don't know what it was) together isn't going to sound to the accountants like a winning formula. There are a lot of people that miss both Cass and Steph, but I bet that there is a lot of overlap between them as well.

[Zak213]

By the way, didn't DC just license / get permission to temporarily use the Red Circle heroes, not obtain them outright?

I think its more of a collaborative deal rather than outright ownership.

Its more like DC gets to pitch their version of the characters and there is a sort of trial period where if dc is successful, they get a renogotiated contract.

On topic- I would just put cass in book where she is bat representative in china, call her mist, and steph and misfit are her supporting characters.

off topic- Both cass and steph could work in YJ but you would have to introduce them out of costume first ala how Bobs and bette were introduced.

[Genki Sudo]

By the way, didn't DC just license / get permission to temporarily use the Red Circle heroes, not obtain them outright?

Possibly since Archie is about to start using them

[MajorHoy]

Why not borrow an unused name and call it Sirens?

the idea is to get more readers

though i liked Sirens

Batman's Sirens?

[maximiliani]

I think it would have be interesting for Cass or Steph, or both, to appear in Young Justice, instead of the typical batgirl, that being babs. I know she is the batgirl that im sure more people know about, but that doesn't mean the not as popular batgirls can't shine in animation/cartoons. In fact i think this new CGI batman series coming up would have been a great way to introduce a non-babs batgirl, though that's not going to happen, i wish it did.

And i don't get it, why would DC still have the history of the 4 male robins mostly intact in the DCnU, but get rid of all the batgirl's history except for 1 batgirl? It doesn't make a lot of sense. Sure i can understand them bringing babs back, though i prefer Cass, im not against bringing babs back as batgirl, however that doesn't mean her history as oracle (which would have to be contained for steph and cass to be batgirl) and the history of cass and steph as batgirl has to be removed.

Maybe the reason for steph's and cass's batgirl history being erased, is because it was to connected to the concept and use of Oracle, and since they wanted to remove Oracles history (which doesn't make any sense really, you can have Babs get cured of her being crippled without erasing her time as Oracle) that means they would have to remove Cass's and Steph's time as well.

It's sad that DC could have easily avoided all of this, and still be able to make the story work....but they don't.

It's REALLY easy to keep all three.

We have a 3 year window for everything that happened pretty much from 1989-2011, the time Babs was not Batgirl. That means Cass could have been Batgirl for I want to say two years, debuting as Batgirl the same time as Tim whose origin I'd retcon to be alongside Cass as a new Robin both debuting in a less severe No Man's Land. She never had her evil period and was Batgirl up to when Bruce died.

It's REALLY easy to then retcon Stephanie's tenure as Batgirl by gutting Babs from her tenure and instead she was under Dick's tutelege alongside Damian for the little under a year or so trying to keep Gotham together while he was Batman, after Bruce "died", Tim stormed off as Red Robin, Babs went to Africa for surgery and rehab and Cassandra graduated Batgirl and became Blackbat under a message from Bruce to go to Hong Kong to take down a cartel or the like thus serving as the first preliminary foreign Batman. That way Cass pretty much founded Batman Inc before Bruce got back. Steph could be Batgirl but perhaps not as competent or high-profile as she was in her book, to just keep it canon and prove she grew.

Bruce gets back and Stephanie goes back to Spoiler and her and Black Bat are sent on a mission somewhere. Babs returns and returns to her Batgirl mantle. Everyone comes off looking good and all fans are happy.

I feel Steph's time as Batgirl has been erased and whenever she's reintroduced she'll STILL be the rookie. They can't possibly have her be better than the still obnoxiously green NuBabs.

[FlashEarthOne]

She is a great character. After Spoiler became Batgirl it is clear that people at DC don't want Cass to be Batgirl. There is still room for the character in the DCnU. She doesn't have to be Batgirl... she can be Blackbat with her own series and I would be happy.

[Selphy]

I was wondering if you guys would trade Bat wing for Black Bat? Like if we could only have one ongoing who would you pick?

[Kerukun878]

I was wondering if you guys would trade Bat wing for Black Bat? Like if we could only have one ongoing who would you pick?

Well. I think it's safe to say people would buy a Cass book more.

[ArnoldoAAD]

I was wondering if you guys would trade Bat wing for Black Bat? Like if we could only have one ongoing who would you pick?

depends of the writers

I really love what Winick is doing on Batwing but i dont think he would do such a good job with Cass

I would change it for Black Bat if it was writen by Fabian Nicieza

[maximiliani]

Batman's Sirens?

I'd rather resurrect Gotham Knights or a literal Batman Family anthology book. Or take the name of that old flash series Gotham Girls.

Honestly I think somewhere down the line when Damian is able to, they might have that Dustin Nguyen Gotham City Boys and Girls Club concept which really could be a great place to bring back both Steph and Cass and other Bat-characters that don't really "fit" in elsewhere if Cass and Steph don't have their own miniseries or series. Gail Simone said Steph while she is benched and won't be around IS attached to a project somewhere down in the cache of new books they want to do, they just haven't gotten to it yet. I honestly believe her on that. I may not be happy with Gail but I do believe they have something lined up.

It's really a no-brainer to stick the two girls together. They're really one of the best partnerships and friendships between two characters let alone FEMALE characters in comics. I just wish DC would realize the massive potential of sales between the two of them. They could easily match Barbara's book's sales (not her initial sales but current sales sure)

[Lorendiac]

While not in comics Donna Troy is being seen in the animated SBFF shorts on tv, thus her copyright remains safe from expiration. Basically it just depends on whenever a copyright on a comic character is going to expire, if DC has a character they don't want to use they still have to mention them somewhere to maintain the copyright and not have others get free access due to copyright expiration. The only question of course is HOW long can a character go unused by a comic book publisher before said copyright expires?

I think you've got "trademark" mixed up with "copyright."

A copyright is expected to last for a fixed length of time -- no matter how much or how little the owner actually does with that material after it becomes his copyrighted intellectual property!

For instance, the way the rules work in the USA today: if I had written a novel, and if it was scheduled to start being sold in stores tomorrow morning, then that copyright would be good for a long, long time -- even if that novel went out of print after a month and was never heard from again, and even if I never wrote any sequels about its characters, either! Only after the legal time limit was up would that story (and its distinctive characters) pass into the "public domain."

Trademarks are different! For them, the rule seems to boil down to "use it or lose it!" -- which is basically what you were suggesting might happen to Donna Troy if she ever disappeared from the public eye for several years at a stretch.

As an example from the real world: The first several books about "Tarzan of the Apes" are in the public domain. You can download copies for free from Project Gutenberg, for instance.

But Tarzan was created by Edgar Rice Burroughs, and he established a trademark on the character. Today (62 years after Burroughs died), the creator's descendants still control that trademark. That means that if anyone wants to advertise a new TV show or movie as being "all about TARZAN!" -- then they need to get permission from the heirs first, or else they can land in hot water for trying to use someone else's trademark to advertise their own products without the trademark owner's permission.

But, in theory, if several years went by (I'm not sure how many) without any official use of the Tarzan trademark on new merchandise, then the trademark could be ruled to have lapsed from lack of use.

So it's possible that DC wants to make sure a Donna Troy/Wonder Girl trademark stays valid, but simply not using her for 10 or 20 years would not affect her copyright status in any way!

[Will.S]

The thing with Cassandra Cain is that like the Barry/Wally thing once they got over whatever hurdle they needed to bring Barbara back as Batgirl, it's very unlikely that they'll look back at the legacy angle again.

I wouldn't expect Cassandra or Stephanie to don any bat suits unless it's Batman Inc. related and with Batwoman around adding more Batgirl's is going to be as bad as the Robin thing. My experiences with Cassandra are a bit with No Mans Land and mostly her involvement in the Justice League Elite as Kasumi which was a great setting for her since she worked with Batman undercover so she had a tie to the Batman family but she was still able to contrast her character with the rest. She seen in the purple and red here btw:



I think the farther you get her away from the Batman legacy stuff the better chances she has of not being marginalized but I wouldn't cut all of her ties to them since I think the history between her and the Bat family is worth being retained. I suppose another good role for her would be as a supporting member of Barbara's network similar to how Barbara was part of the Birds of Prey but we'll see if Gail tries to attempt that.