There is no God in the Marvel Universe?

[Comicmofo]

I was discussing this another member in another thread and I thought it would be an interesting topic

In the Dark Reign tie in "The List", Noh Varr explains that the Kree have a mathematical formula that disproves any Deity (or God/s)

I find this very confusing and even contradictory to many things

I know Thor and asguardians are "alien races" that call themselves gods, but what about characters going to hell or heaven, religious characters and even 'The One Above All'?

I am sure there are many more contradictions but these are the quickest I could think of

[chariset]

There is.

There's the One Above All, who is either God in the sense of supreme omnipotent being or a metaphor for the writer.

There's also a sense that All Myths Are True, so the Christian God exists, as does Jehovah (the two may or may not be the same as the One Above All), plus the deities of many other religions, some of them as principalities or demigods. At least one Heaven exists, and at least one Hell.

[Cryptid]

This just sounds like the science-fictional version of a familiar problem, which is that secular cosmologies and theistic cosmologies can spin their wheels endlessly on proof after proof that god does/doesn't exist without producing an argument that the other side will recognize, since the difference lies in basic assumptions and not their application. It even happens to aliens.

One assumes that the folks at Marvel are reluctant to grant an official continuity status, yes or no, to gods that people still actually believe in, both because it would alienate a fair number of readers, either way, and because it would impose a worldview that would limit the creative range of their titles.

[Ian Pressman]

The problem with the concept of a supreme being is the proven existence of a multiverse. How can there be one specific source of everything when you're just one dimensional portal away from a universe where everything you know never occurred? The Nazis won? The Dark Phoenix destroyed the Universe? Punisher became Venom? Hrrr.

[Comicmofo]

The problem with the concept of a supreme being is the proven existence of a multiverse. How can there be one specific source of everything when you're just one dimensional portal away from a universe where everything you know never occurred? The Nazis won? The Dark Phoenix destroyed the Universe? Punisher became Venom? Hrrr.

Well I guess this being would be un effected by the multiverse

But yet again were talking about 616 the official canon

[Trallis]

Whatever God you believe in in this universe is just as rational in the Marvel Universe. No scientific or mathematical formula could ever disprove a supernatural being, because supernatural beings are by nature supernatural, and therefore their existence or non existence occurs outside the laws of science.

Beings like Asgardians who are considered Gods are considered Gods only by lesser beings. What makes Thor a God to us is that he has all of the qualities that were once associated with the Norse God of Thunder of the same name. On Asgard, if Thor is considered a God it's because Asgardians have a different defenition for the word "God". To us it I think it means a supernatural all powerful being. Thor and the other Asgardians are subject to physical laws, and therefore aren't supernatural. I don't know much about Thor in the comics but he explained it well enough in the movie when he said that he comes from a place where science and magic are "one in the same". What he means is that science has advanced in his world to a point that we would consider magical, the way a caveman would have thought a light bulb was magical.

The presence of amazingly powered beings who have abilities that we have often considered god-like doesn't cancel out the possibility of an actual God. A God can do things that aren't physically possible, like destroy matter or jump over a wall so high he can't jump over it.

Some people in the Marvel universe have religion, and some don't. Just like our Universe. So I say whatever religion you are that's the one that exists in comic books. When I was a slightly more naive reader I read Daredevil: Guardian Devil. After a few issues I thought the events of the story were gonna confirm God's existence in the Marvel universe. Just in case you haven't read that series I won't say what was actually going on, but I felt stupid.

If you want a Universe where the question of God's existence has been answered, read "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy". The existence of the Babel Fish is so incredibly unlikely that it proves the existence of God... and God said he didn't need to prove his existence because "proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing." Therefore the existence of a species that proves the existence of God denies faith and therefore God ceases to exist.

P.S. I'm not religious myself but I choose to believe in God in the comic book world just for fun.

[Codah]

If you want him to, bro. Or if you don't. It's never going to be in continuity because, thankfully, Marvel is smart enough to know that assholes will try to validate their religious beliefs through any medium they can.

[Comicmofo]

Whatever God you believe in in this universe is just as rational in the Marvel Universe. No scientific or mathematical formula could ever disprove a supernatural being, because supernatural beings are by nature supernatural, and therefore their existence or non existence occurs outside the laws of science.

Beings like Asgardians who are considered Gods are considered Gods only by lesser beings. What makes Thor a God to us is that he has all of the qualities that were once associated with the Norse God of Thunder of the same name. On Asgard, if Thor is considered a God it's because Asgardians have a different defenition for the word "God". To us it I think it means a supernatural all powerful being. Thor and the other Asgardians are subject to physical laws, and therefore aren't supernatural. I don't know much about Thor in the comics but he explained it well enough in the movie when he said that he comes from a place where science and magic are "one in the same". What he means is that science has advanced in his world to a point that we would consider magical, the way a caveman would have thought a light bulb was magical.

The presence of amazingly powered beings who have abilities that we have often considered god-like doesn't cancel out the possibility of an actual God. A God can do things that aren't physically possible, like destroy matter or jump over a wall so high he can't jump over it.

Some people in the Marvel universe have religion, and some don't. Just like our Universe. So I say whatever religion you are that's the one that exists in comic books. When I was a slightly more naive reader I read Daredevil: Guardian Devil. After a few issues I thought the events of the story were gonna confirm God's existence in the Marvel universe. Just in case you haven't read that series I won't say what was actually going on, but I felt stupid.

If you want a Universe where the question of God's existence has been answered, read "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy". The existence of the Babel Fish is so incredibly unlikely that it proves the existence of God... and God said he didn't need to prove his existence because "proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing." Therefore the existence of a species that proves the existence of God denies faith and therefore God ceases to exist.

P.S. I'm not religious myself but I choose to believe in God in the comic book world just for fun.

What happened in the daredevil book? I want to know

[Comicmofo]

So peeps

What do you all think about what Noh Varr said?

[Expletive Deleted]

What do you all think about what Noh Varr said?

The MU is stocked with ineffable, effectively immortal, sublimely powerful supernatural/extradimensional entities. Whether or not they're deities in the religious sense is largely subjective.

[Comicmofo]

Whether or not they're deities in the religious sense is largely subjective.

What do you mean?

[Expletive Deleted]

What do you mean?

It depends on your point of view and how you define your terms.

The "One Above All" is an extremely powerful being of some largely-undefined cosmological significance, but it's not necessarily a theist "God." If you want to view the MU's cosmology as materialistic and atheistic, like Lovecraft's but friendlier, that's a perfectly acceptable reading.

[Comicmofo]

It depends on your point of view and how you define your terms.

The "One Above All" is an extremely powerful being of some largely-undefined cosmological significance, but it's not necessarily a theist "God." If you want to view the MU's cosmology as materialistic and atheistic, like Lovecraft's but friendlier, that's a perfectly acceptable reading.

What is the definition of theistic God?

Also I want to know what is marvels official view on this? Does God exist in the marvel u?

[Ravin' Ray]

What is the definition of theistic God?

A God who is infinite in the full sense of the word and transcendent of the multiverse, which the Living Tribunal, Eternity and their ilk are not.

Also I want to know what is marvels official view on this? Does God exist in the marvel u?

Mephisto said in a round-about way in Journey Into Mystery that the Living Tribunal apparently reports to a higher being. Although he styles himself as the Prince of Lies, he will tell the truth if it suits his purpose.

Plus way back in the Coming of Galactus arc in Fantastic Four, Uatu had this to say:

Two FF members, Mr. Fantastic (a.k.a. Reed Richards) and the Invisible Woman (Sue Richards), are now married and off someplace waiting for the birth of their son. The Watcher, another really powerful character who is usually a good guy, appears and sends Reed off to deal with the Surfer.

The visibly pregnant Sue asks, "But what can he do ... against the all-powerful Silver Surfer?"

"All-powerful?" the Watcher replies. "There is only one who deserves that name. And His only weapon ... is love!"

And Waid wrote the FF as meeting God using the likeness of Kirby as they attempted to retrieve Ben Grimm from Heaven.

[XPac]

The problem with the concept of a supreme being is the proven existence of a multiverse. How can there be one specific source of everything when you're just one dimensional portal away from a universe where everything you know never occurred? The Nazis won? The Dark Phoenix destroyed the Universe? Punisher became Venom? Hrrr.

The interesting thing there is that even in the multiverse, there is only one Living Tribunal. And presumably that means there's only one boss of the Living Tribunal as well... the One Above All, or whatever you want to call him.

So in marvel terms, there is still once source of it all.