There is no God in the Marvel Universe?

[Probably_not_a_Nurgling]

Wow, they potrayed the judeo christian god as a guy sitting in a bar?

I'm not the overly sensitive type to this sort of thing, but I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Where did this story take place.

Not just a bar, but a bar in Hell! Don't worry, He's a good guy; the reason He's there is that He can't forgive Himself for not intervening in human affairs to stop World War II, and He's basically been in a funk since then. He meets Howard the Duck down there, who manages to snap Him out of it. It was in Howard's third series, issues 5 and 6.

He also showed up in an issue of What If? where He was shown to be less powerful than Korvac.

[seekquaze]

Another character we've never seen is the real Satan; after years of bickering over which of Marvel's Hell-lords is the real thing, a recent issue of Journey into Mystery revealed they're all fakes, with some not even believing the real one exists!

A Ghost Rider story a few years back introduced what was supposed to have been the actual Lucifer. This was pretty much confirmed by all the other angels and what not. However, in the MU Satan appears to be more of a title for the ultimate evil and different from Lucifer.

Wow, they potrayed the judeo christian god as a guy sitting in a bar?

I'm not the overly sensitive type to this sort of thing, but I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Where did this story take place.

Since it is Howard the Duck I think it has to be taken with something of a grain of salt. If this is the series I am thinking of a lot of it came off as so zanny that trying to place it within the main Marvel U is difficult to do. A lot of those solo Howard stories were not so much about telling a story within the Marvel Universe then about the writer using the story as a vehicle to convey some of his ideas.

[MarkieeMachete]

I guess the One Above All counts as god.

[Probably_not_a_Nurgling]

A Ghost Rider story a few years back introduced what was supposed to have been the actual Lucifer. This was pretty much confirmed by all the other angels and what not. However, in the MU Satan appears to be more of a title for the ultimate evil and different from Lucifer.

According to the Marvel Wikia, there are no fewer than ten characters who have claimed to be Satan, several of whom may or may not actually be the same character as each other. Adding to the confusion, whoever did the art for the Chaos King oneshot seemed to have gotten Marduk Kurios and Lucifer confused, as Hellstorm's father in that series (which would be Marduk) was drawn as Lucifer. Then again, this is the series that got such basic facts about Marvel's cosmology as how strong Eternity is relative to the Living Tribunal wrong...

[seekquaze]

According to the Marvel Wikia, there are no fewer than ten characters who have claimed to be Satan, several of whom may or may not actually be the same character as each other. Adding to the confusion, whoever did the art for the Chaos King oneshot seemed to have gotten Marduk Kurios and Lucifer confused, as Hellstorm's father in that series (which would be Marduk) was drawn as Lucifer. Then again, this is the series that got such basic facts about Marvel's cosmology as how strong Eternity is relative to the Living Tribunal wrong...

True which is why I stated Satan appears to be more of a title than an actual entity if it ever was an entity. Lucifer and Satan are two different beings.

Marduk Kurios has been one of the ones more vocal about being "Satan." Daimon often called the Son of Satan at times confuses matters. Ghost Rider got Marduk and Lucifer mixed up. I think the writer of that issue of Chaos War either thought Daimon was the son of Lucifer thanks to a retcon or just used one hell-lord as a stand-in for all of them.

[finfangfool]

Maybe the "one-above-all" is a god, and maybe it isn't. And maybe if it is a god it is your god, and maybe it isn't. But even if it is (and not some placeholder supreme being left out there with a wink and a nod to comic fans to project their beliefs onto to make them feel better), they're comic books. I'd say don't look for validation of your beliefs in some made up stories about fantastical magical beings, but I feel the same way about comics as I do the bible or koran (except comics seem more realistic to me).

[Comicmofo]

So I guess most of us here would agree that Jason Aaron the writer of dark reign the list: wolverine, shot himself in the foot when he made Noh Varr say that the Kree have a mathematical formula which disproves any God/s?

[Prince Of Orphans]

So I guess most of us here would agree that Jason Aaron the writer of dark reign the list: wolverine, shot himself in the foot when he made Noh Varr say that the Kree have a mathematical formula which disproves any God/s?

Kind of funny considered he wrote God into his run on Ghost Rider.

[Lady_Alternate]

So I guess most of us here would agree that Jason Aaron the writer of dark reign the list: wolverine, shot himself in the foot when he made Noh Varr say that the Kree have a mathematical formula which disproves any God/s?

Not at all, because the Kree may believe that to be the case - especially the Kree in the alternate universe that he comes from.

[Comicmofo]

Not at all, because the Kree may believe that to be the case - especially the Kree in the alternate universe that he comes from.

I don't understand what you mean

Are you saying that thre kree formula might only work in the Kree universe but in the 616 the Kree formula would be deemed incorrect?

[Lady_Alternate]

I don't understand what you mean

Are you saying that thre kree formula might only work in the Kree universe but in the 616 the Kree formula would be deemed incorrect?

I'm saying that of all the Cosmic societies in the 616, the Kree are the most likely to publish "scientific data" that suits their own political needs. Noh-Varr stating that the Kree (of his reality, even) "possessed a formula which disproves the existence of gods" is not the same as an editorial statement that there are no gods in the 616.

[Comicmofo]

I'm saying that of all the Cosmic societies in the 616, the Kree are the most likely to publish "scientific data" that suits their own political needs. Noh-Varr stating that the Kree (of his reality, even) "possessed a formula which disproves the existence of gods" is not the same as an editorial statement that there are no gods in the 616.

I think I know what your trying to say

That the Kree formula although obviously not explained could very well be biased or untrustworthy

And Noh Varr saying that the Kree have a formula is different than editorial saying it because Noh Varr is a fictional character and he may "think " the formula to be true, while editorial are real people who can confirm the formulas validity, but have not.

Am I close?

[Lady_Alternate]

I think I know what your trying to say

That the Kree formula although obviously not explained could very well be biased or untrustworthy

And Noh Varr saying that the Kree have a formula is different than editorial saying it because Noh Varr is a fictional character and he may "think " the formula to be true, while editorial are real people who can confirm the formulas validity, but have not.

Am I close?

Yep. Not everything is black & white, so a characters' claims are pretty much always that.

[dupersuper]

So why in the heck did Jason Aaron make Noh Varr claim that the Kree have a formula which disproves any deity or gods? It just contradicts so much that it makes the writer and the Kree look stupid?

Even if they're wrong, you can be wrong without being stupid.

That kind of thing happens all the time with the Marvel/DC system of writing. Is there any piece of previous continuity that HASN'T been contradicted or retconned at this point?

Krypton still blew up, right? Uncle Ben's still dead?

But back on topic what do you think marvels official take is on this?

I'm sure their official take is that they don't have an official take, lest they alienate large #s of potential consumers.

Again, the Judeo-Christian God has shown up. Here He is:

Attachment 93332

He is explicitly not the Supreme Being, just another Skyfather; compare DC, where Judeo-Christian cosmology takes primacy over all others.

I'm not sure how much primacy Judeo-Christian cosmology takes when The Source is around and Heaven was almost conquered by Chronos...

[mikekerrIII]

So I guess most of us here would agree that Jason Aaron the writer of dark reign the list: wolverine, shot himself in the foot when he made Noh Varr say that the Kree have a mathematical formula which disproves any God/s?

I don't think so> If you try hard enough you can delude yourself into believing that you can prove anything.