Superdoom=New 52 Doomsday?

[The Batman]

Yep. And a pretty bad one at that.

I guess so, yeah. Though, to be fair, the writers at the time seemed to view Doomsday and the Death parts as a necessary evil to get to the meatier parts of the story which dealt with how Superman's death affects everyone and all the different Supermen and Clark's ultimate return.

[Mat001]

Yea but I think NotSuper is talking about just how mindless the whole thing really was and how he was only made a credible threat after the fact but before that we were left wondering how this big random spiky guy just killed Superman.

Seemed pretty obvious.

Personally I always thought that if Superman was gonna go it would be by a death trap to end all death traps (it wouldn't even be just one physical thing that would get him sort of trap but a big situation) It just seems so much more filling then just "a big fight and now he's dead" Sorta like all those other death traps we almost sorta made for him to get out of but now no more joking around.

That was the point. It was treated as if this was yet another battle that Superman would win and that there was no immediate threat, rather than just a death trap. And then it became apparent that Doomsday was more than that. It was meant to be random and unexpected.

I just don't see the appeal in doomsday at all, and I think Superdoom is way better and he actually is credited for kill more than one Superman. Also this will be more of a battle of ideal then anything else, which is really cool

I doubt that Superdoom will have anything to do with Clark's death in the DCnU.

Ditto. I never bought him killing Superman (even the nineties Super-Yuppie should've survived Doomsday), it just seem so contrived. I'd be happy with anything which produces a better Death of Superman story for the new continuity

After his resurrection, Clark was powered up. But even as that was demonstrated, his power wasn't enough and that he had to come up with an alternative. Before then, being beaten down was new and different from yet another Kryptonite death trap.

[Mr. Holmes]

The thing about Doomsday is that he served his purpose in Death of Superman. We got some more closure and background of the character in Hunter/Prey, and that should have been it. I think the character works as just a one-off thing.

But having said that, I definitely don't mind Superdoom being the new version of Doomsday. Definitely a huge improvement.

[Lexrules]

The thing about Doomsday is that he served his purpose in Death of Superman. We got some more closure and background of the character in Hunter/Prey, and that should have been it. I think the character works as just a one-off thing.

But having said that, I definitely don't mind Superdoom being the new version of Doomsday. Definitely a huge improvement.

If I may ask as I have not been reading this. What is Superdoom?

[Jody Garland]

Superdooom is the Superman of another world. In that world, there wasn't any superpowered beings, but three people- Jimmy, Clark and Lois- decide to make a Tulpa to fill the void. They end up having to sell the idea to a corporation who mainstream the concept until they end up with what is essentially a Fascist Superman who protects the world at the cost of its freedom.

[Lexrules]

Superdooom is the Superman of another world. In that world, there wasn't any superpowered beings, but three people- Jimmy, Clark and Lois- decide to make a Tulpa to fill the void. They end up having to sell the idea to a corporation who mainstream the concept until they end up with what is essentially a Fascist Superman who protects the world at the cost of its freedom.

Ahh the one in the latest Action Comics I guess. I read the set up of the story. Thanks for the info.

[Superlad93]

If I may ask as I have not been reading this. What is Superdoom?

Yea basically what Jody said but I'd also like to add that he was introduced in Action comics #9 and that issue was amazing and really Lex I know you and I haven't seen eye to eye on things regarding the reboot but man Action #9 reminds you why you like the very concept of Superman.

Please pick it up. I don't think you will be disappointed. Also let me know if you have any questions on it at all so you can make an informed perchance.

[Lexrules]

Yea basically what Jody said but I'd also like to add that he was introduced in Action comics #9 and that issue was amazing and really Lex I know you and I haven't seen eye to eye on things regarding the reboot but man Action #9 reminds you why you like the very concept of Superman.

Please pick it up. I don't think you will be disappointed. Also let me know if you have any questions on it at all so you can make an informed perchance.

Thanks. Ill give it a try. :)

[NotSuper]

That was the point. It was treated as if this was yet another battle that Superman would win and that there was no immediate threat, rather than just a death trap. And then it became apparent that Doomsday was more than that. It was meant to be random and unexpected.

Whether it was the point or not doesn't make it a good idea. Sales-wise, it was obviously a success, but the story itself was pretty bad and the attempts to parasite off the story later led to Superman getting stuck in a rut during the 90s (not that the Super-Yuppie aspect didn't hurt just as much).

I doubt that Superdoom will have anything to do with Clark's death in the DCnU.

It may not. I don't think it'll be the same as the Doomsday story, though. Whether Superdoom is involved or not, I personally think someone other than Doomsday will be the killer.

After his resurrection, Clark was powered up. But even as that was demonstrated, his power wasn't enough and that he had to come up with an alternative. Before then, being beaten down was new and different from yet another Kryptonite death trap.

It really just made him look kind of dumb, to me. Even that Superman--with his limited intelligence and powers--should've beaten Doomsday. The story didn't work for me because I didn't believe in the narrative, which is essential for one to enjoy a story (maybe when I was 7 or 8--which I was at the time--but not when I got older).

[Mat001]

Whether it was the point or not doesn't make it a good idea. Sales-wise, it was obviously a success, but the story itself was pretty bad and the attempts to parasite off the story later led to Superman getting stuck in a rut during the 90s (not that the Super-Yuppie aspect didn't hurt just as much).

Except that the Superman writers were already doing event stories before the death, so that wasn't exactly a factor. And Clark was considered a yuppie before his death. That was even talked about in the TIME magazine article on the reboot.

It may not. I don't think it'll be the same as the Doomsday story, though. Whether Superdoom is involved or not, I personally think someone other than Doomsday will be the killer.

Doubtful. I think if anything, the story will be closer to the animated movie since Steel, Superboy and Supergirl all debuted at different times and are different people. Meaning that it's just Clark fights Doomsday, he dies, but is resurrected via Kryptonian tech without the full on "Reign Of The Supermen". Morrison likes Doomsday as evidenced in ASS. So it wouldn't be unreasonable for it to be him.

It really just made him look kind of dumb, to me. Even that Superman--with his limited intelligence and powers--should've beaten Doomsday. The story didn't work for me because I didn't believe in the narrative, which is essential for one to enjoy a story (maybe when I was 7 or 8--which I was at the time--but not when I got older).

He did beat Doomsday. It just cost him his life in the process. As I noted, it's much like when a boxer dies from his injuries. Too much head trauma will end a life quickly. In this case it was trauma period. Fighting for four and a half hours, most people would drop before then.

[NotSuper]

Except that the Superman writers were already doing event stories before the death, so that wasn't exactly a factor. And Clark was considered a yuppie before his death. That was even talked about in the TIME magazine article on the reboot.

I was implying Clark was a yuppie for most of the eighties and nineties, including prior to his death and return. I wasn't implying it was something he'd become after he came back to life (John Byrne's Superman, in truth, really was more yuppie than farmboy). And other Superman events don't really figure into this for me. My point was that stories after the Death tended to needlessly call back to it and completely overused characters like Doomsday and the Cyborg. In essence, Superman's life became more about his (past) death than his future.

Doubtful. I think if anything, the story will be closer to the animated movie since Steel, Superboy and Supergirl all debuted at different times and are different people. Meaning that it's just Clark fights Doomsday, he dies, but is resurrected via Kryptonian tech without the full on "Reign Of The Supermen". Morrison likes Doomsday as evidenced in ASS. So it wouldn't be unreasonable for it to be him.

It's a reach for you to claim Morrison likes Doomsday just because he did a visual and name call-back to the character with Jimmy in All-Star. That's a bit like saying the easy way Doomsday was defeated by the Justice Lords Superman meant their writers liked him simply because they used him. Not a particularly good argument, I think. I think we'll see a lot of characters re-imagined in different ways, actually. Although I don't think Superdoom is so much a revamped Doomsday as a revamped "ultimate doom" that Superman must stop (which is what Doomsday--the character--was presented as, albeit in a bad way). The idea that Superman can only defeat an enemy by giving his life is a good one, it just wasn't done in a particularly interesting or believable way with the Death.

He did beat Doomsday. It just cost him his life in the process. As I noted, it's much like when a boxer dies from his injuries. Too much head trauma will end a life quickly. In this case it was trauma period. Fighting for four and a half hours, most people would drop before then.

You missed my point entirely here. The fact that Superman even got to the point where he needed to punch Doomsday to death wasn't very creative or worthy of Superman. Like I said, even the less powerful, less intelligent Superman of the late eighties and nineties should've beaten Doomsday--without dying. Like many others that have reviewed the story closer to the present (granted, hindsight is always 50/50), I just didn't "believe" in it. And ultimately, if one doesn't buy into the narrative, no amount of sophistry will change that fact. The story has to stand or fall by itself.

[Superlad93]

Doubtful. I think if anything, the story will be closer to the animated movie since Steel, Superboy and Supergirl all debuted at different times and are different people. Meaning that it's just Clark fights Doomsday, he dies, but is resurrected via Kryptonian tech without the full on "Reign Of The Supermen". Morrison likes Doomsday as evidenced in ASS.

I don't think you can say that Morrison actually likes Doomsday just because he was in All-star. All-star was an amalgamation of everything Superman so one of the most important Superman stories ever must find it's way in. Also All-star was about his death and in the story Doomsday was one of the ways to stop Superman. Ultimately Doomsday did not kill him in the story and something more did but he had to give a nod to the original killer before moving on.

It's not really him liking doomsday just him showing respect.

[NotSuper]

this woudl be really cool and it seems that way

it's a super idea from a supposedly not super source haha

Heh. Thanks for the compliment. :)

[sandmountainslim]

We have already been thru the whole Death and Reign thing so why do we have to do it again?? Is it because of the 20 year anniversary? Can't the writers just SAY that it happened and leave it at that without having to wast stories on it? I got awfully weary of the whole scenario the first time around in '92 and '93 and also of the marriage.

[Mat001]

I was implying Clark was a yuppie for most of the eighties and nineties, including prior to his death and return. I wasn't implying it was something he'd become after he came back to life (John Byrne's Superman, in truth, really was more yuppie than farmboy). And other Superman events don't really figure into this for me. My point was that stories after the Death tended to needlessly call back to it and completely overused characters like Doomsday and the Cyborg. In essence, Superman's life became more about his (past) death than his future.

They were used because they were popular. That's standard in all comics.

It's a reach for you to claim Morrison likes Doomsday just because he did a visual and name call-back to the character with Jimmy in All-Star. That's a bit like saying the easy way Doomsday was defeated by the Justice Lords Superman meant their writers liked him simply because they used him. Not a particularly good argument, I think. I think we'll see a lot of characters re-imagined in different ways, actually. Although I don't think Superdoom is so much a revamped Doomsday as a revamped "ultimate doom" that Superman must stop (which is what Doomsday--the character--was presented as, albeit in a bad way). The idea that Superman can only defeat an enemy by giving his life is a good one, it just wasn't done in a particularly interesting or believable way with the Death.

Well, the fact that Doomsday was even included in ASS, is as good sign.

You missed my point entirely here. The fact that Superman even got to the point where he needed to punch Doomsday to death wasn't very creative or worthy of Superman. Like I said, even the less powerful, less intelligent Superman of the late eighties and nineties should've beaten Doomsday--without dying. Like many others that have reviewed the story closer to the present (granted, hindsight is always 50/50), I just didn't "believe" in it. And ultimately, if one doesn't buy into the narrative, no amount of sophistry will change that fact. The story has to stand or fall by itself.

Except we saw different efforts to handle Doomsday without just punching him. That was highlighted throughout the whole story.