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  1. #31
    ~Superior Schemer~ Artemis Assassin's Avatar
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    Nope? What'd she do?

  2. #32
    Hated and Feared NewMutant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis Assassin View Post
    Rachel was never really acting like Jean I think, if anything with her it's easy to understand the similarities in powers and looks because she's Jean's daughter so I wouldn't call her a clone
    Madelynne: At first she was a Jean-look-alike without powers, than she had different powers and went crazy. I don't see Jean wearing an SM-outfit and call herself the goblin queen or red queen while spanking one of her toys
    Hope: Kid, no character smiliarities, different powers, not that much to say about her yet since she's still pretty new
    Similar personalities, not the same personalities. Jean's personality is sort of a blank canvas, you can sort of do anything with her which is a pro and con to the character. Hope could easily, and hopefully is, a reboot of Jean as the Phoenix collecting herself. I know most are against it but I think it is a great and creative way to bring her back. And while her powers are different you could easily say it is the power of the Phoenix. If/when Hope becomes Jean and regains her memories it would be a great way to separate her from Cyclops. The last thing we need is more of the same. Even then the other three traits alone are more than enough to be copies of Jean. There is a reason why those three characters are only used in a relevant fashion when Jean is gone... because they are filling her void.
    My Canon > Your Canon

  3. #33
    jealous of me sweetdumbass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemis Assassin View Post
    Nope? What'd she do?
    SM Outfit spanking her toy (in this case, her alternate reality son).

  4. #34
    Canon fodder creaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewMutant View Post
    Jean's personality is sort of a blank canvas
    No kidding.
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  5. #35
    GUILTY Phoenix Egg's Avatar
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    Clone fans, own the clonedom and quit whining. It doesn't even make sense. The original Jean clone didn't let her being a clone stop her from carving her own niche.

    The reality though is that she, Fungi and Rachel are based around being variations of Jean Grey. It doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing, but I'm gonna call a spade exactly what it is.


    They are to Jean what War Machine is to Iron Man...clones.
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  6. #36
    s p o i l e r s ! Kerukun878's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Egg View Post
    Clone fans, own the clonedom and quit whining. It doesn't even make sense. The original Jean clone didn't let her being a clone stop her from carving her own niche.

    The reality though is that she, Fungi and Rachel are based around being variations of Jean Grey. It doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing, but I'm gonna call a spade exactly what it is.


    They are to Jean what War Machine is to Iron Man...clones.
    ... really? no, they're not clones. They're characters with similar powers-- you don't see DC fans calling Nightwing, Robin, Red Robin, and Batgirl clones of Batman, or Superboy and Supergirl clones of Superman, or Wonder Girl and Troia clones of Wonder Woman. Characters can have similar powers, but they're absolutely not clones. It's super fans like you that give Jean Grey fans bad names.

  7. #37
    Hated and Feared NewMutant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerukun878 View Post
    ... really? no, they're not clones. They're characters with similar powers-- you don't see DC fans calling Nightwing, Robin, Red Robin, and Batgirl clones of Batman, or Superboy and Supergirl clones of Superman, or Wonder Girl and Troia clones of Wonder Woman. Characters can have similar powers, but they're absolutely not clones. It's super fans like you that give Jean Grey fans bad names.
    I would absolutely say this is best argument. That said characters like Nightwing, Robin, etc all have enhanced Batman's story. They couldn't exist without Batman, or whomever, but changed his story along the way. It should be flattering for Jean fans; this character is popular enough that she is able to branch out and have her own "family." But I don't think the same could be said for the Jean "family/clones;" they feel like temporary replacements till the original returns. Aside from Hope (who is still too new either way), the story of the X-Men wouldn't be much different if those characters weren't around.
    My Canon > Your Canon

  8. #38
    s p o i l e r s ! Kerukun878's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewMutant View Post
    I would absolutely say this is best argument. That said characters like Nightwing, Robin, etc all have enhanced Batman's story. They couldn't exist without Batman, or whomever, but changed his story along the way. It should be flattering for Jean fans; this character is popular enough that she is able to branch out and have her own "family." But I don't think the same could be said for the Jean "family/clones;" they feel like temporary replacements till the original returns. Aside from Hope (who is still too new either way), the story of the X-Men wouldn't be much different if those characters weren't around.
    Actually, I don't agree. Without Madelyne, we wouldn't have Cable. Without Rachel, we wouldn't have Cable... and without Cable, we wouldn't have Hope. They all have their roles to play and they all belonged, and really the only one that hasn't left a lasting impact is Fongji; who, as I said, is still very new and feels very contrived.

  9. #39
    Super Dupont Nicoclaws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewMutant View Post
    I would absolutely say this is best argument. That said characters like Nightwing, Robin, etc all have enhanced Batman's story. They couldn't exist without Batman, or whomever, but changed his story along the way. It should be flattering for Jean fans; this character is popular enough that she is able to branch out and have her own "family." But I don't think the same could be said for the Jean "family/clones;" they feel like temporary replacements till the original returns. Aside from Hope (who is still too new either way), the story of the X-Men wouldn't be much different if those characters weren't around.
    Rachel was an important part in the mythos, I think.
    Maddie too.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewMutant View Post
    I would absolutely say this is best argument. That said characters like Nightwing, Robin, etc all have enhanced Batman's story. They couldn't exist without Batman, or whomever, but changed his story along the way. It should be flattering for Jean fans; this character is popular enough that she is able to branch out and have her own "family." But I don't think the same could be said for the Jean "family/clones;" they feel like temporary replacements till the original returns. Aside from Hope (who is still too new either way), the story of the X-Men wouldn't be much different if those characters weren't around.
    Yeah,

    Rachel's story contributed nothing to the X-Men and they could have just used Jean instead. Same with Maddie's, and of course Hope's story hasn't really impacted the story of the X-Men. Whereas Jean's contribution has been incredible. We all remember the M'Kraan Crystal adventure vividly.

  11. #41
    Hated and Feared NewMutant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerukun878 View Post
    Actually, I don't agree. Without Madelyne, we wouldn't have Cable. Without Rachel, we wouldn't have Cable... and without Cable, we wouldn't have Hope. They all have their roles to play and they all belonged, and really the only one that hasn't left a lasting impact is Fongji; who, as I said, is still very new and feels very contrived.
    Cable could still exist without being Summers relation or exist as Jean's child and not Maddies. And Cable could not exist at all.

    Well who the hell even knows whats up with Fongii yet. Oh Bendis. lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicoclaws View Post
    Rachel was an important part in the mythos, I think.
    Maddie too.
    I'd say Rachel has been the least important actually.
    My Canon > Your Canon

  12. #42
    s p o i l e r s ! Kerukun878's Avatar
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    Rachel's contribution was actually very centered around her and Excalibur. It wasn't very lasting, but it was there.

    And Cable literally DOES have to exist for Hope to be the character that she is now... and him being Jean's child instead of Madelyne's would screw up a lot of canon. Maddie also contributed Inferno, which the characters of Magik and Face revolved around so I'd say that she's pretty important.

  13. #43
    Elder Member Aguja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fortyseven View Post
    Mary Jane, Amelia Voght, Colleen Wing, Fongji, Rachel, Siryn, Hope, Black Widow, Medusa, Maddie and Firestar are all Jean Grey clones.
    Quote Originally Posted by Home made ectoplasm View Post
    Emma Frost is just Jean Gray in a wig
    Yes to both of these. It's why these characters have never had the it factor or made it like Jean has. I am glad to see you two putting your biases aside and admitting all this.

  14. #44
    Hated and Feared NewMutant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerukun878 View Post
    Rachel's contribution was actually very centered around her and Excalibur. It wasn't very lasting, but it was there.

    And Cable literally DOES have to exist for Hope to be the character that she is now... and him being Jean's child instead of Madelyne's would screw up a lot of canon. Maddie also contributed Inferno, which the characters of Magik and Face revolved around so I'd say that she's pretty important.
    I don't disagree. Cable is important. But the "story" of X-Men still works without any sort of time travel. They can be cool, but it doesn't really enhance the story so much as reinforce what they are fighting for.
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  15. #45
    C'est kinky Seresecros's Avatar
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    started reading comics ten years ago. what's a jean grey?

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