AVX: "My best friends are cooler than yours!"

[GokaiRed]

The thing that bothers me the most about Avengers vs. X-Men honestly isn't the content of the story, but rather how some of the fans seem to react to it. I realize that some of this is all in good fun (it's a comic book, after all) but sometimes I'll come across a comment that completely slams one side of the "battle" and want to cringe.

The thing is, I like both the Avengers and the X-Men. I'm not really rooting for anybody, because I believe there are individuals on each side (of which I think there are more than two) who are correct and some who are not. I can't see myself completely siding with one team, because they both are made up of some smart, interesting, powerful people who have something to contribute to the conflict. However, if I were to lean in one direction or the other, I feel like I'd be assaulted with slander toward that side that doesn't even apply to me.

If I agree with the general sentiments of the X-Men, then that must apparently mean that I think Cyclops is amazing and always right. Except that's not true, because I think that, while Cyclops is tactically smart, he's also got some problems that need ironing out (to say the least).

If I agree with the Avengers, then I'm apparently an un-American, oppressive bigot who beats up kids for funsies. Except not all of these Avengers are actually involved because they think this is the perfect solution- it's just one of many, more terrible solutions, and people are just making due with a crappy situation that escalated fast.

I particularly take issue with the idea that the X-Men will "lose" if Cyclops goes down. Last I checked, most of the Jean Grey School's inhabitants aren't even involved, and they're still considered X-Men (I'm talking about the staff too, so let's not argue semantics). And if some of the students did get involved, let's not be naive enough to assume they would do so because they're in full possession of all the facts. Which could be said for a lot of people on every side, actually.

What bugs me the most though is this idea that, because one likes a certain group, this means that they must be better and more deserving of the "win" in the end. Arguments about whether or not the X-Men could take on Avengers villains seem kind of crazy, considering the threats the X-Men took on themselves (like the Phoenix, among countless others). Likewise, I don't understand the need to slam the Avengers for not getting involved in previous mutant affairs since, you know, they had other stuff to deal with, and I don't remember the X-Men asking for much assistance recently.

There's also the fact that these characters and the situations they get into are fictional and largely meant to be separated, so they can have any hope of functioning narratively without near-constant interruption.

X-Men Legacy's last issue sparked some interesting debate over a few Avengers showing up to watch over the Jean Grey School. Naturally, friction built up. But I was surprised by how many fans decided that either one side was completely right or completely wrong, when the book never seemed to be suggesting that at all. Each side is justified from a certain perspective, they both go too far, and things get nasty. I can't really imagine just accepting one team as the totally awesome ones and the other side as the losers who got it wrong. They're both "wrong" in some way. As fictional characters, they're written with enough dimension that it's not so simple.

I get that this event will likely end a certain way, with one side backing down moreso than the other. But I guess I'm just not expecting some spectacular defeat of an entire line of superheroes just because that's the story. I don't think that was ever the point, and I would be truly shocked if either the X-Men or the Avengers were destroyed by this event. They're groups of individuals. Some of them will screw up to crazy-ridiculous levels. That doesn't mean every man, woman, and child on "their side" goes down with them.

And, for pity's sake, please stop acting like X-Men fans have no place in an Avengers forum and vice-versa. Guess what. Some X-fans are also Avengers fans. Relax.

[Ian Pressman]

Amen, brudda. Can't we all just get along?

[mikekerrIII]

Amen, brudda. Can't we all just get along?

ROTFLMAO at you saying that.

[Hulk_Is]

Did you just start reading comics yesterday???

[Exo]

The X-men are going to lose this event so that they'll be at a low point in their existence. That way Bendis can come in and write grime-ey street level stuff featuring the X-men when he takes over. The regular fans will hate it, new readers will love it. He'll call his book: "Newer X-men." It'll sell like gangbusters.

Bendis writing The X-Men.

Five bucks says Luke & Jessica's kid turns up being a mutant ending with The Cages moving into the school.

[GokaiRed]

Cyclops and Emma better not end up dead or in prison afterwards.

It is possible for them to "lose" and the story still be good though.

I like Cyclops as a character, but that doesn't mean that I agree with all his decisions as if he was my friend or something. If he's ultimately proven wrong, that's not an automatic result of the writers disliking him. That's like saying Bucky became Winter Soldier again because Ed Brubaker hates him. An event took place that changed the story and gave the involved characters something different to play for a while.

I'm not saying that every single bad thing that happens to comic characters is because of some great story a writer has in mind for them later. But it's not always because the writer wants them to burn in hell either.

I don't even see the benefit from maliciously screwing up the X-Men line, which has obviously been a tremendous money-maker for Marvel for, like, ever. It's far more likely that the point of the event is to bring exposure to both sides, since this type of cross-promotion is the most classic, well-proven in the medium. If their goal was truly to wipe out the X-Men, then they've done almost the exact opposite of what they should have.

[Aaric Rivad]

Bendis writing The X-Men.

Five bucks says Luke & Jessica's kid turns up being a mutant ending with The Cages moving into the school.

What are the odds of Osborn showing up with his new Dark X-Men?

[Starfish]

We know from Civil War that Marvel can't portray a conflict between two equally valid sides without vilifying one of them, so it's hardly surprising they fail spectacularly at it once more. The problem is that this event is played dead serious, even though the concept of hero vs. hero fights in superhero-comics is inherently silly - at least when done on a scale larger than a couple of characters holding a grudge against each other.

The event breaks down exactly because the stakes are so high: In situations like these, we expect the characters we know and love to overcome whatever differences they may have and band together to face a greater threat, not do the opposite and make everything worse. The conflict feels forced and breaks suspension of disbelief, because rarely before has it been so obvious that characters act only to support the plot, not according to their characerization.

If Marvel really must have their Avengers vs X-Men battle, the whole thing should have been handled similar to Contest of Champions. Sure, I guess the event sells, but it's also turning the fandom into a toxic environment.

[Kieran_Frost]

The thing that bothers me the most about Avengers vs. X-Men honestly isn't the content of the story, but rather how some of the fans seem to react to it. I realize that some of this is all in good fun (it's a comic book, after all) but sometimes I'll come across a comment that completely slams one side of the "battle" and want to cringe.
The thing is, I like both the Avengers and the X-Men. I'm not really rooting for anybody, because I believe there are individuals on each side (of which I think there are more than two) who are correct and some who are not. I can't see myself completely siding with one team, because they both are made up of some smart, interesting, powerful people who have something to contribute to the conflict. However, if I were to lean in one direction or the other, I feel like I'd be assaulted with slander toward that side that doesn't even apply to me.

Whil I'm not "thrilled" by how the event has unfurled/b*stardising continuity... I do think something REALLY interesting has happened. Despite what many think, A LOT of fans do think their side is 100% right AND that they cannot see how fans from the other side don't agree. Me personally, I truly don't see how fans can look at bringing an army to a sovereign nation to kidnap a child, or coming to a private school to put everyone in it under house arrest is, in anyway, justified. But I do see Avenger fans 100% convinced that Captain America is right. It's so, SO interesting. I haven't see such a polar split it "certainties" since Civil War. Credit to the writers, they HAVE made both sides justified (at-least to a good amount of fans). Kudos.

If I agree with the general sentiments of the X-Men, then that must apparently mean that I think Cyclops is amazing and always right. Except that's not true, because I think that, while Cyclops is tactically smart, he's also got some problems that need ironing out (to say the least).

I would disagree. Believing the Avengers are in the wrong, doesn't mean you agree with Cyclops. I haven't seen anyone make such a statement.

What bugs me the most though is this idea that, because one likes a certain group, this means that they must be better and more deserving of the "win" in the end. Arguments about whether or not the X-Men could take on Avengers villains seem kind of crazy, considering the threats the X-Men took on themselves (like the Phoenix, among countless others). Likewise, I don't understand the need to slam the Avengers for not getting involved in previous mutant affairs since, you know, they had other stuff to deal with, and I don't remember the X-Men asking for much assistance recently.
There's also the fact that these characters and the situations they get into are fictional and largely meant to be separated, so they can have any hope of functioning narratively without near-constant interruption.
X-Men Legacy's last issue sparked some interesting debate over a few Avengers showing up to watch over the Jean Grey School. Naturally, friction built up. But I was surprised by how many fans decided that either one side was completely right or completely wrong, when the book never seemed to be suggesting that at all. Each side is justified from a certain perspective, they both go too far, and things get nasty. I can't really imagine just accepting one team as the totally awesome ones and the other side as the losers who got it wrong. They're both "wrong" in some way. As fictional characters, they're written with enough dimension that it's not so simple.

People are passionate about their comics. YES, it often can go overboard, and create "blinders" to logic, but in general I think the passion AvsX has evoked is a GOOD thing. The boards are alive with rage, support, praise and condemnation. I think Marvel have done a great job making this an interesting event (unlike Fear, Itself... which sooooooooooo many seemed to really not care about, let alone read).

[AdvanceBushido]

lol Your so stupid ( in a good way). I was loling when you said "motherf**kers, Cyclops and Emma better not end up dead or in prison afterwards"

[USERNAME TAKEN]

As much as Cyclops seemed to going off his rocker at the beginning of this event, AVX #3 showed that he's actually still rational.

[Froggy]

i think the phoenix force is trolling us all

even the readers.

[GokaiRed]

I would disagree. Believing the Avengers are in the wrong, doesn't mean you agree with Cyclops. I haven't seen anyone make such a statement.

Well, that's kind of what I meant.

Believing that the Avengers have made mistakes in this doesn't mean I'm totally pro-Cyclops. At the same time, supporting the X-Men doesn't mean I think Cyclops has been handling the Avenger-situation perfectly either. It's not that simple. A lot of people seem to think it is though. As if "Cyclops" and "X-Men" are interchangeable words for the exact same thing, or that all the Avengers are on precisely the same page. So if you "pick a side" then that means you've picked everyone affiliated with it. In fact, just saying you're cool with what (insert character here) did in one scene apparently means that you've already picked a side entirely. WHAT?

[Froggy]

Well, that's kind of what I meant.

Believing that the Avengers have made mistakes in this doesn't mean I'm totally pro-Cyclops. At the same time, supporting the X-Men doesn't mean I think Cyclops has been handling the Avenger-situation perfectly either. It's not that simple. A lot of people seem to think it is though. As if "Cyclops" and "X-Men" are interchangeable words for the exact same thing, or that all the Avengers are on precisely the same page. So if you "pick a side" then that means you've picked everyone affiliated with it. In fact, just saying you're cool with what (insert character here) did in one scene apparently means that you've already picked a side entirely. WHAT?

so it's kind of like civil war huh?

personally I don't find any reason to sweat this but w/e

[yanapryde]

On the subject of determining a winner and a loser to this event, I can't help but cite the last Versus issue.

Each rumble, between Mags/Stark and Thing/Namor, respectively was assigned a winner and loser, yes?
However, the circumstances of each "win" aren't really concrete.

Magneto gave up.
Namor got pinned and eventually came back at Thing.

Some will read this and they'll see an X-fan, unhappy with each outcome, and arguing against it. But that's really not where I'm coming from.
Magneto's 'defeat' made sense, within the circumstances.
Namor's, I'll admit still has me calling foul (but c'mon it was underwater!)

Anyhow...my point is that in a fight, I'd argue that a win between two competitors should involve a knock out. Is it mandatory? No. But its a more solid way of defining "win" rather than ....well...giving up or delaying further fighting..?

I'm left pondering if the outcome of the event will be similar.
Because saving the planet, which both sides are basically in favor of, is a win. Its just a matter of whether the X-Men get to harness the Phoenix or not, right? Not accomplishing a recharge for mutants is their "loss".