Wonder Woman 9 Preview

[slvn]

We've had eight straight issues of nothing but this and nothing but this and nothing but this and nothing but this and nothing but this and nothing but this. It got to the point that I no longer found it entertaining. Yes, the book is depressing to read.

If you're reading nothing but the story of a character who is defeated and co-opted, I think you're missing a lot of what's in the book. I've been reading about a character who devotes herself to protecting the vulnerable, even as her own world starts to come apart, and who never gives up, come hell or high water.

I'm supposed to be OK with the deliberate distortion of Wonder Woman's setting and character because back issues exist. Feh.

Honestly, Steve, I'm not telling you that you have to be happy with anything. But I don't see why new authors should be restricted to doing what previous authors have already done. New takes on the character and her world don't take the old stories away or "distort" their meaning; they're just new takes.

[Rob_Olivera]

If you're reading nothing but the story of a character who is defeated and co-opted, I think you're missing a lot of what's in the book. I've been reading about a character who devotes herself to protecting the vulnerable, even as her own world starts to come apart, and who never gives up, come hell or high water.



Honestly, Steve, I'm not telling you that you have to be happy with anything. But I don't see why new authors should be restricting to doing what previous authors have already done. New takes on the character and her world don't take the old stories away or "distort" their meaning; they're just new takes.

All in a nutshell.. some people just miss the sort of more simplistic adaptations to the book aimed at a somewhat younger audience. Today's books are not targeted to 12 year olds I'd have to say. I'm talking in general, not only WW of course.

[Dr. Hurt]

Exactly.

But its a case of having your cake and eating it too. Some people [readers AND writers] want a darker world because it is more believable. Somebody mentioned on in a similar discussion I was having that writers now seem to want to take Watchmen and turn it from a uniquely dark realistic view of superheroes and recreate it everywhere.

Others have pointed this out - if you start applying to much reality to this genre it simply falls apart. By making the DCU more like the real world you simply highlight its unreality rather than making it more credible. Real world logic needs to take a back seat sometimes.

I dont think they're trying to make the DC world a darker place. They didnt have a meeting and decide "well everyone, please to try to make the DCU as grimdark as possible". It's just how comics are written these days. Each writer does his own thing in his book. WW has become a darker book but that doesnt mean that the whole world is dark and you cant have a happy book like Miller's Stephgirl where she and Supergirl fight Draculas that came alive from a cinema screen.



It's not a consistent world that works as a whole. It's combination of various books that form the whole. And in the same world you can have whatever kind of story you like. So it's pointless to look at this as a consistent whole, and try to imagine how it would be living there. It doesnt work that way.

[slvn]

To me, Dial H for Hero kind of epitomizes the sort-of-paradox we're getting at; the DCU you would be a horrible place to live, but it would also be a place of wonder, where amazing forces could enter your life and call you to become a hero.

Incidentally, now I really want Wonder Woman to meet a happy Sisyphus while she's in Hades.

[SteveGus]

I have to wonder, if 8 issues by Azzarello upset you so much, how did you make it trough Rucka, with civilians getting slaughtered, kids turned into stone, Diana poisoning her eyes, beheading adversaries and snapping necks?

I was not a fan of the Rucka run; it's still not one of my favorites. Too slow, too dark, and the one thing that Wonder Woman must never be is a tragic figure.

If you're reading nothing but the story of a character who is defeated and co-opted, I think you're missing a lot of what's in the book. I've been reading about a character who devotes herself to protecting the vulnerable, even as her own world starts to come apart, and who never gives up, come hell or high water.

Doesn't get around the fact that Wonder Woman is repeatedly defeated and coopted in Azzarello's writing so far, and I expect that to continue. When she tries to act like Wonder Woman, we're told she misread the situation, and that doesn't work any more. She's failed to keep Zola safe, failed to keep Paradise Island or her mother safe, and failed to keep herself safe.

[Zagreus]

We've had eight straight issues of nothing but this and nothing but this and nothing but this and nothing but this and nothing but this and nothing but this. It got to the point that I no longer found it entertaining. Yes, the book is depressing to read.



This too gets old. I'm supposed to be OK with the deliberate distortion of Wonder Woman's setting and character because back issues exist. Feh.

You don't need to be OK with it. But that's life. I think that Bendis, a writer I happen to like, messed up my favorite character Dr. Strange, in a lot of essential ways. He was running around in street clothes with the new avengers, depowered, and doing some goofy stuff. I wrote about it a little on the boards, but to be honest, I just dropped the book and went on and folowed other characters I did like. I got lucky with Strange (he's being written to my satisfaction in Defenders). Maybe the status quo will change to your liking in WW, maybe not, but that's how these things go. Characters are revamped all the time. I just shrug it off and move on, it's the nature of the beast with character who've been around for decades and generations. The industry is here to make money. Right now Azz is makeing the company money, the book has a buzz, so this take isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and I for one am glad. So, all the philosophizing and logic in the world isn't going to do a thing to change the minds of DC/WB as the bottom line comes down to $$, and once one realizes that, it's easier to let go of attachment to these icons.

[WhitOro]

the one thing that Wonder Woman must never be is a tragic figure.

Why?

\tencharactersdammit

[slvn]

She's failed to keep Zola safe

She succeeded in protecting Zola from Hera and the centaurs. She succeeded, seemingly at great cost to herself, in sending Zola back from hell. Zola, as far as we know, is safe right now.

failed to keep Paradise Island or her mother safe

It wasn't really her responsibility at the time. We'll see if she helps to restore them later.

and failed to keep herself safe.

She took a bullet, so to speak, for Zola. Whether it was part of a plan or she simply put herself in harm's way, she made a sacrifice. I'm no sure we should chalk up a sacrifice as a defeat. We're in the middle of a cliffhanger, and we'll have to see how Diana ultimately does in returning safe from hell.

In Marston's Wonder Woman 2, Steve Trevor, a mortal under Diana's protection, is abducted and brought to Mars' hell planet. Wonder Woman, while trying to bring him back, is bound and imprisoned. I guess you could say, if you've only read through to the middle of the story, that Wonder Woman has been defeated and has filed to protect Steve or herself. But if you get to the end of the story, you see that she has succeeded. I think that the same will happen in this case. We'll see.

But how has she been "co-opted"? I think she has consistently acted according to her values so far.

[swatkat]

I dont think they're trying to make the DC world a darker place. They didnt have a meeting and decide "well everyone, please to try to make the DCU as grimdark as possible". It's just how comics are written these days. Each writer does his own thing in his book. WW has become a darker book but that doesnt mean that the whole world is dark and you cant have a happy book like Miller's Stephgirl where she and Supergirl fight Draculas that came alive from a cinema screen.



It's not a consistent world that works as a whole. It's combination of various books that form the whole. And in the same world you can have whatever kind of story you like. So it's pointless to look at this as a consistent whole, and try to imagine how it would be living there. It doesnt work that way.

I miss my Stephgirl. :(

[swatkat]

I was not a fan of the Rucka run; it's still not one of my favorites. Too slow, too dark, and the one thing that Wonder Woman must never be is a tragic figure.

Diana is a figure continuously striving for peace, for humanity achieving its fullest potential in a world full of strife and stubbornly resistant humans -- there is very definitely place for tragedy in that. It might not be to your taste, but it points to Diana's versatility as a character.

[americanwonder]

Diana is a figure continuously striving for peace, for humanity achieving its fullest potential in a world full of strife and stubbornly resistant humans -- there is very definitely place for tragedy in that. It might not be to your taste, but it points to Diana's versatility as a character.

Yeah, with goals like that, she's bound to run into many a tragedy. Yet, while this Diana has been smacked around, her world trashed, I don't see her as tragic (so far?).

[BeccaBlast]

I dont think they're trying to make the DC world a darker place. They didnt have a meeting and decide "well everyone, please to try to make the DCU as grimdark as possible". It's just how comics are written these days. Each writer does his own thing in his book. WW has become a darker book but that doesnt mean that the whole world is dark and you cant have a happy book like Miller's Stephgirl where she and Supergirl fight Draculas that came alive from a cinema screen.



It's not a consistent world that works as a whole. It's combination of various books that form the whole. And in the same world you can have whatever kind of story you like. So it's pointless to look at this as a consistent whole, and try to imagine how it would be living there. It doesnt work that way.

Just thinking; your argument would probably work better if you had an example from a book that actually still existed. Stephgirl is totally gone except for (MAYBE) Batman, Inc. -- and I really am hard-pressed to think of a nu52 book that is just balls-to-the-walls fun. OMAC was one -- oops cancelled. GI Combat I have hopes for -- god knows I don't like Krul's take on regular superhero stuff; maybe weird works for him, and Palmiotti and Grey on the Unknown Soldier should be fine. Frankenstein and Demon Knights come close, but every time I look at their sales figures, I get nervous. Dial H looks like the best hope right now, but this is what, the fourth try for that idea?

Heck, I know Azz has it in him -- unless it all went into Dr. Thirteen. It's why I still have hopes for this run, flickering though they might be.

[WhitOro]

Just thinking; your argument would probably work better if you had an example from a book that actually still existed. Stephgirl is totally gone except for (MAYBE) Batman, Inc. -- and I really am hard-pressed to think of a nu52 book that is just balls-to-the-walls fun. OMAC was one -- oops cancelled. GI Combat I have hopes for -- god knows I don't like Krul's take on regular superhero stuff; maybe weird works for him, and Palmiotti and Grey on the Unknown Soldier should be fine. Frankenstein and Demon Knights come close, but every time I look at their sales figures, I get nervous. Dial H looks like the best hope right now, but this is what, the fourth try for that idea?

Heck, I know Azz has it in him -- unless it all went into Dr. Thirteen. It's why I still have hopes for this run, flickering though they might be.

Action Comics is pretty light-hearted. The new Dial-H is indeed dark, but it's the kind of dark from a Tim Burton movie, the one you're just laughing the all time (seriously, there's a homeless guy with a sign "Need money 4 karate lessons"). Red Hood has questionable material indeed, but that doesn't prevent him from being a quirky bizzare book filled with scince fiction extravaganza. Domen Knights, again, pretty bloody, but with characters like Etrigan, Exoristos and Savage, humor is 60% of the book. I've reand only and issue of Nocenti's Green Arrow, but I had the feel it was pretty carefree.
And OMAC, yes it was cancelled, but it was written by Dan Didio of all people, and I find that a proof that it's not the "editorial" forcing a grim and gritty line.

We are going a bit out of topic here I presume.

[SteveGus]

It would be nice if you could point out these clichés, since I can't see them (stuff that has yet to happen but you think will happen doesn't count).

She's now become the last survivor of a lost race that was destroyed by her enemies. Conflict with the gods, and revenge on the gods, is now at least one of her motivations. She carries a lot more large weapons now than she used to, even. And she is, even if unwillingly, even if temporarily, espoused to Hades. All of these traits remind me of characters like Avengelyne, Zealot, or Lady Death, and I do count them as bad-girl clichés.

Wonder Woman differs from Superman and Batman by coming from a supportive environment free from tragedy. The essence of bad-girl is that the character is a product of tragedy; their reaction to that tragedy is the key to their motivations.

[WhitOro]

She's now become the last survivor of a lost race that was destroyed by her enemies.

You say the amazons are a lost race, I say they've been magically altered and they're in a state that can quickly be resolved.
But, what do I know? I only saw Azzarello using this same plot tendency in Superman: For Tomorrow, another book where he destroyed the character world just to reconstruct it good as new by the end of it.

Conflict with the gods, and revenge on the gods, is now at least one of her motivations.

You're right, I'll give you that, she was never in conflict with the gods during Marston, Perez, or Simone.
I remember how she used to hang around in clubs with Ares. I hope Azza brings back those nice scenes.
Also, defending an innocent girl from the games of superpowerful beings is indeed bad-girl material.

She carries a lot more large weapons now than she used to, even.

She used a sword twice in nine issues. A single sword. She also used her lasso twice. No large weapons. She does keep large weapons in her closet, but she's from an island of warriors, and she was trained to fight evil, I think having a personal collection doesn't hurt. Batman has a no kill rule and is considered a hero plain and simple, yet he has a war-armor in his cave.
Any other example was promotional artworks that didn't even make it into the book.

And she is, even if unwillingly, even if temporarily, espoused to Hades.

She's not, the matrimony has yet to take place. Read the preview, Strife is asking Ares to be her companion at the cerimony, which means, no matrimony yet.


Honestly Steve, you didn't even mentioned that she goes to listen to metal bands and wears leather. That I would have accepted.