Votes on Gay Rights Never Match Public Opinion.

[Merey]

As of last year, the United Church of Christ, Episcopal, Lutheran (USA), and Presbyterian denominations all allow ordination of LGBT people.

And, although not strictly Christian but of Judeo-Christian origins , the Unitarian Universalists were amongst the first (or maybe the first - I'll need to look that up) to ordain and marry LGBT people.

ETA: That was one of the reasons that back in the 90s (when I was in college) that I decided to start attending a UU church.

[Jared]

I suspect that opinion polls on this are actually misleading by several points, simply because a lot of people who answer polls, even anonymously, will tend to lie about their views in order to sound more open-minded. They don't want to sound like they're against a certain thing or certain group of people.

[SteveGus]

Voters are always going to be older and tend to be richer than the general public. The number one factor that increases a person's likelihood of actually voting is retirement; people with jobs are less likely to bother. This skews the ratio, especially where a generational dynamic is at stake. And it's why all those scare ads mention Social Security, and it's a political kiss of death to call it welfare, even if it is.

[David Walton]

Speaking as a Christian, I like that take a lot! Thanks.

[Michael P]

I'll be right-click-save-as-ing that when I get home.

[mikekerrIII]

Edit: Ah, I think I've misunderstood what you were getting at mike.

Yeah, if tomorrow the Supreme Court decided that same sex marriage was legal, same sex marriage would be legal tomorrow. It's clear full equality nationwide would take forever if left as a state-to-state issue, but it's only a matter of time before it's taken out of their hands.

That is what I was getting at. There are still heresy laws in some states but they have not been forcible since the 1830s or so. Unenforceable laws are just comic relief and legally meaningless

[mikekerrIII]

Just a quick thought about the president's announcement he supports same-sex marriage:

Lot of people seem, I think, overly concerned how the president got to this interview (struggling with the thought Biden's interview really forced him President Obama to take this step). Personally, I don't much care what got him to do this; I'm just happy he did. Having a systemic bias against any group of people based on their sexual preference is stone age type thinking, and in no way, shape, or form is living up to the promise of the country. Imposing some people's sensibilities and/or religious beliefs on others, denying some their ability to pursue happiness because it makes others uncomfortable, is about as wrong as it gets.

I spent 20 plus years defending the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and it's moments like this in history, when our people begin to live up to the ideas espoused in those documents, that make it seem like that was a worthwhile way to spend a good portion of my life.

We don't agree too often on politics but here I agree with you fully and for much the same reasons

[Vibranium]

Yeah, I'm skeptical my grandkids will even see equality in all 50 states.

if there is anything the ignorant fear more than brown people, its "teh geyz"

[Ship]

if there is anything the ignorant fear more than brown people, its "teh geyz"

One can only imagine the nightmares caused if they were to ever encounter a brown-skinned gay Muslim.

[StoneGold]

Christianity isn't against gays. Some interpretations of passages of the Bible are against gays, but there is disagreement about how those translate and they aren't proscriptions directly from God, but as passed along by people - often written down hundreds of years later which allows plenty of time for errors and personal opinions to get in.

And let's face it, even if it did, there's a ton of crazy shit in there everyone ignores. To quote the great biblical scholar Rev. Timothy Lovejoy, "Oh just about everything is a sin, have you ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we're not allowed to go to the bathroom."

[StoneGold]

One can only imagine the nightmares caused if they were to ever encounter a brown-skinned gay Muslim.

http://gaymuslims.org/

So it's not like they're all in hiding.


That said, in an ironic twist, they'd probably use the generally harsher persecution of gays in Islamic countries as a reason why Islam sucks. You know, like they do with the women. Even if their idea of women's rights are a cunt hair to the left. You know, just beat the willfulness out of her, there's no need for honor killings.

[king arthas]

Now I know you're joking since there is no such thing as a gay Muslim I mean the middle east hates gays more than any place else. Heck in those countries you can be put to death over it.

I honestly don't get why gays would want to worship the abramic god. I mean I wouldent worship a god that thought I was an abomination.

[dupont2005]

there is no such thing as a gay Muslim

Might want to double check that

[Vibranium]

Might want to double check that

seriously

if you just simplify it, gay people are tax paying Americans, why are you denying a tax paying American citizen the same rights you have?

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

Motherfucking saved.