Hope's True Identity Revealed?

[fortyseven]

I have friends...and they are kind...

Ah. That's better than what I frist thought.

[Chase_Stein]

Just when I thought Phoenix fans couldn't be more of a trainwreck...this happens.

LOLxforever. ZNOP, definitely for XPOTM.

[Phoenix Egg]

How come Lin didn't get off his ass and save his team?

[Chase_Stein]

How come Lin didn't get off his ass and save his team?

His coach didn't want him to. Lin has done enough to allow his team to reach the playoffs, anyway.

[Brother Justin Crowe]

Anyone think she is Fongji reincarnated? My theory is that when Fongji died, she went to a Phoenix egg. Years later this would eventually use Louise Spalding as a vessel to give birth to a reincarnated form of Fongji, whom has since been renamed Hope

If they did that, that wouldn't even be a twist. That's just Deep Space Nine meets All You Zombies.

[Henry T.]

I actually wouldn't be upset if Fongji, Jean, and Hope were reincarnations of the same soul.

After all, Maddie was a reincarnated part of Jean and Claremont wanted Rachel to be an asexual reproduction of Jean. In Nicieza's X-Men Forever mini when Jean went into her future self, she went into Rachel.

Also there are hints in Classic 43 and New 154 that the White Phoenix of the Crown in the White Hot Room is Jean's true self.

She is just born and reborn (through the ages) as a human/woman/mutant so that she can learn and grow to be a better Phoenix. Death said that Jean's soul was carved from the Phoenix.

They are always there waiting for themselves to arrive and the White Hot Room is a nexus of all time, space, and realities.

Quentin met his parents there before he was born.

However, I'd only be OK with it if Jean's personality/memories made a comeback and she held onto her humanity most of the time.

But I don't expect it to happen. I think they created Fongji to bypass Jean. Hope may be Fongji reincarnated or Fongji may be her ancestor.

They are using Fongji as a way to retcon away Jean's special relationship to the Phoenix and special place in the Phoenix mythos and to give it to Hope.

It is just like the 86 replacement retcon and the later Excalibur stories that tried to retcon the "one true Phoenix" status away from Jean to give it to Rachel.

It won't stick though. It has never worked. This new retcon may last 20 years like previous retcons have but the pendulum will swing back and Jean will be restored to her rightful place.

[Havok83]

Hope on the left. Fongji on the right

[MarvelMaster616]

The more I read about Fongji and this whole retcon of the Phoenix's history, the more hate both her and Hope. I get that Marvel loves to retcon stuff, but I expect the House of Ideas to at least try to make it not look so contrived. This is just too much. Marvel has spent the last several years setting Hope to be the complete replacement for Jean Grey. Now they have to utterly revise the history of the Marvel universe to trivialize Jean Grey's role as the Phoenix bearer. It's like her connection doesn't even matter. They've already utterly ignored the events of Phoenix Endsong, contrary to what the ending implies and what Marvel.com's own bio says about both Jean Grey and the Phoenix Force. Now they've thrown Fongji into the mix and they essentially make Jean just another meat bag that was nothing special whatsoever. She was just another shell for the Phoenix Force. That really makes what she did in Here Comes Tomorrow and Phoenix Endsong seem meaningless. If it was all Fongji and Hope, then it gives Marvel the excuse they need to pretty much ignore Jean Grey until someone does another retcon. I was expecting something to twist the history of the Phoenix in AvX, but Fongji is just too contrived and too stupid a concept to take seriously. If by the end this retcon holds and Hope still draws breath, it'll be a real middle finger to her character development (which is already poor) and that of Jean Grey's.

[streator]

The more I read about Fongji and this whole retcon of the Phoenix's history, the more hate both her and Hope. I get that Marvel loves to retcon stuff, but I expect the House of Ideas to at least try to make it not look so contrived. This is just too much. Marvel has spent the last several years setting Hope to be the complete replacement for Jean Grey. Now they have to utterly revise the history of the Marvel universe to trivialize Jean Grey's role as the Phoenix bearer. It's like her connection doesn't even matter. They've already utterly ignored the events of Phoenix Endsong, contrary to what the ending implies and what Marvel.com's own bio says about both Jean Grey and the Phoenix Force. Now they've thrown Fongji into the mix and they essentially make Jean just another meat bag that was nothing special whatsoever. She was just another shell for the Phoenix Force. That really makes what she did in Here Comes Tomorrow and Phoenix Endsong seem meaningless. If it was all Fongji and Hope, then it gives Marvel the excuse they need to pretty much ignore Jean Grey until someone does another retcon. I was expecting something to twist the history of the Phoenix in AvX, but Fongji is just too contrived and too stupid a concept to take seriously. If by the end this retcon holds and Hope still draws breath, it'll be a real middle finger to her character development (which is already poor) and that of Jean Grey's.

care to give a quick overview of who fongji and what her supposed connection to hope is?

[Swashbuckler]

The more I read about Fongji and this whole retcon of the Phoenix's history, the more hate both her and Hope. I get that Marvel loves to retcon stuff, but I expect the House of Ideas to at least try to make it not look so contrived. This is just too much. Marvel has spent the last several years setting Hope to be the complete replacement for Jean Grey. Now they have to utterly revise the history of the Marvel universe to trivialize Jean Grey's role as the Phoenix bearer. It's like her connection doesn't even matter. They've already utterly ignored the events of Phoenix Endsong, contrary to what the ending implies and what Marvel.com's own bio says about both Jean Grey and the Phoenix Force. Now they've thrown Fongji into the mix and they essentially make Jean just another meat bag that was nothing special whatsoever. She was just another shell for the Phoenix Force. That really makes what she did in Here Comes Tomorrow and Phoenix Endsong seem meaningless. If it was all Fongji and Hope, then it gives Marvel the excuse they need to pretty much ignore Jean Grey until someone does another retcon. I was expecting something to twist the history of the Phoenix in AvX, but Fongji is just too contrived and too stupid a concept to take seriously. If by the end this retcon holds and Hope still draws breath, it'll be a real middle finger to her character development (which is already poor) and that of Jean Grey's.

Hilarious. Hope's done nothing Jean-like since her inception and we don't even know the story with Fongi yet. Jean isn't important. Get over it.

[xhx23x]

I don't really understand when people say Hope or Fongji's existance diminishes Jean's importance to the Phoenix. She still saved the universe and ate a galaxy (or however you feel like classifying that). All they're doing with Hope and Fongji is expanding the Phoenix's own history and story. And they're not even doing a bad job at it (Well, they weren't till Spiderman showed up for no reason).

[Lady_Alternate]

care to give a quick overview of who fongji and what her supposed connection to hope is?

I don't think he's the one to ask if you're looking for an unbiased factual overview.

[graffiX]

I don't think he's the one to ask if you're looking for an unbiased factual overview.

Or a quick overview.

[MarvelMaster616]

Hilarious. Hope's done nothing Jean-like since her inception and we don't even know the story with Fongi yet. Jean isn't important. Get over it.

She has red hair, green eyes, a connection to the Phoenix Force, a connection to Cable, and her last name is Summers. Fongji has red hair, green eyes, and a connection to the Phoenix Force as well. There aren't too many characters in the Marvel universe that fit that description that aren't linked to Jean Grey. You list those traits and Jean Grey is the most common connotation. Weilding the Phoenxi Force and displaying a fiery personality is as Jean-like as it gets, especially if you've read how Grant Morrison depicted her during his New X-men run. Get over it.

I don't think he's the one to ask if you're looking for an unbiased factual overview.

No one's opinion is unbiased on this board.

[Swashbuckler]

She has red hair, green eyes, a connection to the Phoenix Force, a connection to Cable, and her last name is Summers. Fongji has red hair, green eyes, and a connection to the Phoenix Force as well. There aren't too many characters in the Marvel universe that fit that description that aren't linked to Jean Grey. You list those traits and Jean Grey is the most common connotation. Weilding the Phoenxi Force and displaying a fiery personality is as Jean-like as it gets, especially if you've read how Grant Morrison depicted her during his New X-men run. Get over it.

Personality, no, Jean and Hope are not alike. Not at all. There is not conspiracy to replace Jean with Hope, and there never was. Yes, they tap into the same power source and their physical similarities was used as a red herring. That's it.