Marvel Declares "No More Avengers" With "AvX" Act Two Teaser

[sweetdumbass]

Again, how can you say that they might not be willing to compromise if they didn't actually know what the other person was doing?

And beyond that, even if compromise is impossible how it is smarter to just shoot at Steve rather than to even try?

That's frankly the part I really call BS as far as the X-Men defenders go... the mentality that if compromise is unlikely (I won't say impossible because no one can fairly say that), it was okay or even smart to just go ahead and shoot at the other guy.

This is why Cap wasn't willing to compromise. He was prepared for a fight, not conversation. Emma saw it in his mind and warned Scott. And in the cas where you know a clash is gonna be inevitable, it's much smarter to be the on to pull the first punch. Fighting 101.

[Lascoden]

Again, how can you say that they might not be willing to compromise if they didn't actually know what the other person was doing?

And beyond that, even if compromise is impossible how it is smarter to just shoot at Steve rather than to even try?

That's frankly the part I really call BS as far as the X-Men defenders go... the mentality that if compromise is unlikely (I won't say impossible because no one can fairly say that), it was okay or even smart to just go ahead and shoot at the other guy.

It's more then just an unwillingness to compromise, though. Cap basically made a demand, and said that if it wasn't fulfilled, he would do it by force. He threatened Scott, who responded with a show of force.

[chariset]

Honest question, then: Let's assume Cyclops were making a thought-out, tactical decision when he fired on Captain America, under the assumption that Cap were alone. What would Step 2 have been?

[Lascoden]

Honest question, then: Let's assume Cyclops were making a thought-out, tactical decision when he fired on Captain America, under the assumption that Cap were alone. What would Step 2 have been?

Go about his business. He just wanted Cap to leave.

[XPac]

This is why Cap wasn't willing to compromise. He was prepared for a fight, not conversation. Emma saw it in his mind and warned Scott. And in the cas where you know a clash is gonna be inevitable, it's much smarter to be the on to pull the first punch. Fighting 101.

If Steve wanted a fight, he could have simply attacked. It would likely have been an easier fight.

And in this case I don't see how it's smarter to pull the first punch. Shooting at Steve gave him no tactical advantage at all. Steve wasn't hurt. The Avengers weren't compromised in any way.

All he really did was make it easier to justify the Avengers attacking. If nothing else, it would have been MUCH smarter to allow Steve to throw the first punch. Then the X-Men would have a MUCH easier time taking the higher ground. As much as I disagree with what Frenzy with with the Avengers, it showed a whole lot more common sense than what Scott did.

[chariset]

Go about his business. He just wanted Cap to leave.

He must have known Cap wouldn't just let it go. He would eventually have come back with the Avengers. Even if he'd been willing to stand down, there are others who would have been outraged and would have brought the battle to the X-Men

[XPac]

It's more then just an unwillingness to compromise, though. Cap basically made a demand, and said that if it wasn't fulfilled, he would do it by force. He threatened Scott, who responded with a show of force.

Scott had the means of simply teleporting Hope away, so there were other possible means of preventing Cap from taking Hope from force aside from simply shooting at him. And that aside... if it comes down to a fight, I'll say again... let Cap throw the first punch.

It's something he might not even do. And IF he does, the X-Men in the least can cite their actions more as self-defense.

How exactly is responding with a show of force the better option here?

[XPac]

Go about his business. He just wanted Cap to leave.

I don't think Scott is that naive or stupid as to assume it would be business as usual after he just fired on Captain America.

[Lascoden]

Scott had the means of simply teleporting Hope away, so there were other possible means of preventing Cap from taking Hope from force aside from simply shooting at him. And that aside... if it comes down to a fight, I'll say again... let Cap throw the first punch.

It's something he might not even do. And IF he does, the X-Men in the least can cite their actions more as self-defense.

How exactly is responding with a show of force the better option here?

They're kind of running out of places to run to. In fact, it's why they're on Utopia in the first place. And Cap threatened him, to his face. I don't see how he's not justified in taking action when his home is threatened.

[gregyo]

The attack felt justified to me. Cyclops was not going to give Hope to the Avengers, Steve was clearly not leaving with out her. Cyclops told Captain America to leave, Steve said no. That kind of impasse wouldn't have gone away, especially because if either of them had been willing to compromise, Emma Frost would have been able to tell and would have said something.

Say what you will about the X-men, but there's really no denying that they go to enormous lengths to protect their own. Steve should have known that. After the hell that the X-men went through to get Hope safely to the X-men (Second Coming), Steve should have known that Cyclops wouldn't just turn her over to a potentially hostile force with a guy (Wolverine) who thinks stabbing people is the best solution to every problem.

I'm siding with the X-men, but both sides are superheroes, and I think the rhetoric for this event has been toned WAY up. Nobody should be describing these teams as "evil".

[XPac]

They're kind of running out of places to run to. In fact, it's why they're on Utopia in the first place. And Cap threatened him, to his face. I don't see how he's not justified in taking action when his home is threatened.

Hiding her really isn't that hard. Hell, keep her in limbo. I doubt Cap would bother invading another dimension for her... if Phoenix destroys limbo I don't think Steve would lose too much sleep.

But more to the point, I think it's a good short term sollution to avoiding a flat out fight which Scott seemed to want. In the least it's probably preferable to how things turned out.

I'll ask again... how it attacking Steve rather than simply teleporting Hope away and trying to talk to Hope better?

[sweetdumbass]

Scott had the means of simply teleporting Hope away, so there were other possible means of preventing Cap from taking Hope from force aside from simply shooting at him. And that aside... if it comes down to a fight, I'll say again... let Cap throw the first punch.

It's something he might not even do. And IF he does, the X-Men in the least can cite their actions more as self-defense.

How exactly is responding with a show of force the better option here?

He must have known Cap wouldn't just let it go. He would eventually have come back with the Avengers. Even if he'd been willing to stand down, there are others who would have been outraged and would have brought the battle to the X-Men

Honest question, then: Let's assume Cyclops were making a thought-out, tactical decision when he fired on Captain America, under the assumption that Cap were alone. What would Step 2 have been?

Sure, let's all talk about what shoulda coulda woulda happened !!! So much fun !!

Fact is, Cap wanted to play who's got the biggest balls and Scott is trying to save his people. No matter the outcome of this event, I know who is right.

[CyberHubbs]

Cyke was just following the Castle Doctrine.

[Lascoden]

Hiding her really isn't that hard. Hell, keep her in limbo. I doubt Cap would bother invading another dimension for her... if Phoenix destroys limbo I don't think Steve would lose too much sleep.

But more to the point, I think it's a good short term sollution to avoiding a flat out fight which Scott seemed to want. In the least it's probably preferable to how things turned out.

I'll ask again... how it attacking Steve rather than simply teleporting Hope away and trying to talk to Hope better?

Well, first of all, Limbo is basically Hell, and not a pleasant place to live, with the demons and constant corrupting hellfire. Plus, people have invaded Limbo plenty of times, and the Avengers have gone to other dimensions many times. That would not be a deterrent. Hell, Strange flew right into Limbo during the battle. And, if they fled, then they would be forced to run for an indeterminate amount of time. On the run, they would be vulnerable to their countless enemies. On Utopia, they have a modicum of safety. That was the point of Utopia. Maybe they felt they shouldn't have to be fugitives for no real reason, and decided to protect their home instead.

[chariset]

Sure, let's all talk about what shoulda coulda woulda happened !!! So much fun !!

The X-fans are the ones saying Cyclops was acting rationally and his actions were justified. But I just don't see how attacking Cap was a sound tactical decision. In my view, it makes sense only as an act of anger and frustration, which is to say not planned.

The burden of proof is on you to explain how Cyclops was in the right to escalate the situation.