Marvel Declares "No More Avengers" With "AvX" Act Two Teaser

[Exo]

Two Things.
First: I'm about 98% certain the "Making it up as I go" line was about how they were going to get a Cerebra, and find Hope. He might if had a plan to deal with the PF, but that was shot all to hell at that point.

Scott said they'd train Hope. He doesn't specifically state the location where they'd be training Hope, did he?



I think it was implied that they'd go about their usual business on Utopia and wait for the PF to come to them. And Scott seems to be the only one who's confident that it'll work (with Namor, Magneto and Colossus being apprehensive and I'm also thinking that Frost was on the fence).

[Starfish]

And about Steve's plan... I don't seem to remember any proof of steve's plan in any of the books, besides saying that he wants to take hope into custody. If anyone would like to point out the issue in which he clearly says that the plan is to take hope into space, i would like that a lot. Because i haven't seen it.

New Avengers #24

[Lascoden]

Scott said they'd train Hope. He doesn't specifically state the location where they'd be training Hope, did he?


I think it was implied that they'd go about their usual business on Utopia and wait for the PF to come to them. And Scott seems to be the only one who's confident that it'll work (with Namor, Magneto and Colossus being apprehensive and I'm also thinking that Frost was on the fence).

They have access to space ships. Taking her offworld may have been their plan, as soon as they knew the Phoenix was close enough. We'll probably never know what Scott had planned, but we do know what Cap has planned.

[XPac]

Cyclops, Wolverine and Steve's idea are all flawed. But with proof of Jean and Rachel being able to control the phoenix to some extent, Cyclops's plan is the most logical sounding one. Indeed he could try and get Hope into space, just in case it goes wrong, but who says that wasn't his plan all along? We don't know this.
Who says that if Cyclops had proof of the phoenix destroying planets on its way to earth he wouldn't have said: oh shit lets take hope into space, just to be sure! Because don't forget at the moment the avengers attacked the x-men were still in the unknown about what was happening in space, and i don't think magneto has mentioned it yet either( seeing he sensed the phoenix taking out planets)
And maybe Cyclops still will be the one taking hope into space, seeing as to how issue 5 of avx seems to take place on the moon.

All this bitching about Cyclops and his " stupid/ risky" plan is a bit premature by all you Avengers fans.

And about Steve's plan... I don't seem to remember any proof of steve's plan in any of the books, besides saying that he wants to take hope into custody. If anyone would like to point out the issue in which he clearly says that the plan is to take hope into space, i would like that a lot. Because i haven't seen it.
And like many have mentioned before, Why didn't Captain " i am wearing the flag as clothing" America just tried to reason with cyclops by showing him their evidence of the phoenix eating all those planets? Why did he choose to go the totalitarian " I know better, so listen to me you little bitch" route instead of the first let's show him all the facts and convince him route.

And about Wolverine's plan.... Well i'm still scratching my head on that one. True he did promise to take out Hope if the phoenix would take her over, and he is keeping his promise, but he clearly knows that the " main" phoenix force is still in space and that killing hope could be just as useless as trying to shoot the phoenix force with a pellet gun. So why still do it...? I don't know, but we know Hope is going to go to Wolverine and propose him something, so maybe we will hear his reasoning for his maniacal behavior. Let's say for now that he is an idiot, but aren't all the heroes portrayed as idiots in AVX?

Here's my thoughts on Cyclops... if he had some sort of reasonable plan to deal with Hope he should have just said so. Again, if he had tried explaining to Steve what he wanted to do rather than shoot at him, MAYBE Steve and him could have come up with some middle ground. Maybe if Scott had told Steve his plan was to take Hope into Space (if his play hypothetically was to do that... obviously we don't know) Steve would have been okay with that so long as they did it together. MAYBE. Now we'll never know.

That's my REAL issue with Cyclops. Not that his plan is necessarily any better or any worse than anyone else's (I do have a bad feeling about using the PF and think it's going to crash and burn but that's just a gutt feeling on my part) ... but because he basically ensured that these guys would be spending the entire event fighting each other.

[Lascoden]

Cap's plan is to keep the PF and Hope separate. To do this, he plans on getting Hope offworld, and then contain/destroy the PF.

[Lascoden]

Here's my thoughts on Cyclops... if he had some sort of reasonable plan to deal with Hope he should have just said so. Again, if he had tried explaining to Steve what he wanted to do rather than shoot at him, MAYBE Steve and him could have come up with some middle ground. Maybe if Scott had told Steve his plan was to take Hope into Space (if his play hypothetically was to do that... obviously we don't know) Steve would have been okay with that so long as they did it together. MAYBE. Now we'll never know.

That's my REAL issue with Cyclops. Not that his plan is necessarily any better or any worse than anyone else's (I do have a bad feeling about using the PF and think it's going to crash and burn but that's just a gutt feeling on my part) ... but because he basically ensured that these guys would be spending the entire event fighting each other.

Except Steve doesn't want them to join. He's said this multiple times. They are operating under the belief that if they join, the world will be destroyed.

[sweetdumbass]

Except for the fact that you can't/shouldn't destroy the PF. Thus, Cap is wrong on that one.

[XPac]

Except Steve doesn't want them to join. He's said this multiple times. They are operating under the belief that if they join, the world will be destroyed.

If they're joined away from earth, it might not endanger the planet. If this is all happening far far away Steve might not necessarily care. In the least, it would buy them some time.

My point is simply that compromise MIGHT be achieved. I'm not saying that's a guranteed outcome. But in the same breath I don't think anyone can really argue it's an impossibility. You always have the option of attacking Steve afterwards if things don't work out after a REAL effort was made.

[Lascoden]

If they're joined away from earth, it might not endanger the planet. If this is all happening far far away Steve might not necessarily care. In the least, it would buy them some time.

My point is simply that compromise MIGHT be achieved. I'm not saying that's a guranteed outcome. But in the same breath I don't think anyone can really argue it's an impossibility. You always have the option of attacking Steve afterwards if things don't work out after a REAL effort was made.

I honestly don't feel that you can have a compromise, not in this situation. Steve, Tony, and Logan all seem to believe that, no matter where, if Hope joins with the PF, the Earth will be destroyed. So, they want to destroy the PF instead. Scott, Rachel, and it seems Iron Fist (eventually) don't. They have two absolutely incompatible goals.

[Rud]

I honestly don't feel that you can have a compromise, not in this situation. Steve, Tony, and Logan all seem to believe that, no matter where, if Hope joins with the PF, the Earth will be destroyed. So, they want to destroy the PF instead. Scott, Rachel, and it seems Iron Fist (eventually) don't. They have two absolutely incompatible goals.

You cannot destroy the Phoenix Force its immortal and even if you could it'd be like the end of life in the universe... its a dumb idea.

[XPac]

I honestly don't feel that you can have a compromise, not in this situation. Steve, Tony, and Logan all seem to believe that, no matter where, if Hope joins with the PF, the Earth will be destroyed. So, they want to destroy the PF instead. Scott, Rachel, and it seems Iron Fist (eventually) don't. They have two absolutely incompatible goals.

Again, I'm not arguing compromise is guranteed. I'm merely arguing that it would have made far more sense to at least try and do that rather than flat out shoot at Steve. Neither person really even know what the other actually had planned.

If you want to argue that compromise is an impossibility (which quite frankly is something you cannot in all fairness do), then we'll have to agree to disagree.

If you want to argue it makes more sense to just shoot at Steve than to even try (even if attempts at compromise failed), then we'll have to agree to disagree there as well.

[Lascoden]

Again, I'm not arguing compromise is guranteed. I'm merely arguing that it would have made far more sense to at least try and do that rather than flat out shoot at Steve. Neither person really even know what the other actually had planned.

If you want to argue that compromise is an impossibility (which quite frankly is something you cannot in all fairness do), then we'll have to agree to disagree.

If you want to argue it makes more sense to just shoot at Steve than to even try (even if attempts at compromise failed), then we'll have to agree to disagree there as well.

I think it's pointless to try and compromise with someone who isn't wanting to.

[XPac]

I think it's pointless to try and compromise with someone who isn't wanting to.

So in the history of mankind you don't believe that people who initially didn't want to compromise didn't end up finding middle ground?

Again, they didn't even know what the other person was actually planning to do. Can you honestly argue in such a situation that compromise wasn't at least possible?

And even if it wasn't, does it really make more sense to just shoot at Steve rather than to even try?

[Lascoden]

So in the history of mankind you don't believe that people who initially didn't want to compromise didn't end up finding middle ground?

Again, they didn't even know what the other person was actually planning to do. Can you honestly argue in such a situation that compromise wasn't at least possible?

And even if it wasn't, does it really make more sense to just shoot at Steve rather than to even try?

Neither one was willing to compromise. Neither one was willing to change their position. They made it clear what action they were each going to take, and then followed through with it.

[XPac]

Neither one was willing to compromise. Neither one was willing to change their position. They made it clear what action they were each going to take, and then followed through with it.

Again, how can you say that they might not be willing to compromise if they didn't actually know what the other person was doing?

And beyond that, even if compromise is impossible how it is smarter to just shoot at Steve rather than to even try?

That's frankly the part I really call BS as far as the X-Men defenders go... the mentality that if compromise is unlikely (I won't say impossible because no one can fairly say that), it was okay or even smart to just go ahead and shoot at the other guy.