Marvel Declares "No More Avengers" With "AvX" Act Two Teaser

[YagamiFire]

Captain America doesn't have a plan. That's what discredits him. Wolverine's plan is terrible too, because stabbing hosts was never efficient. Cyclops plan might seem like it's not much, but it's the only one with slight chances to work. Actually, if you read New Avengers, you should know that Cyclops preparing Hope is exactly what's been done with previous Phoenix host Fongji, and albeit we don't know how that story ends, it doesn't look like the Earth was destroyed or we would know. And it was written by Brian Avengers Bendis.

See this is why I point out that a lot of what is being said doesn't make sense. Much of what you're saying is clearly untrue.

Exhibit A - Captain America has a plan and its been described several times. Are you reading this event? They are going to get Hope off-planet to meet the Phoenix somewhere where there is no collateral damage, assuming that the Phoenix is coming for Hope (note: if you say that is a bad assumption, it is the same exact assumption that Cyke is making by training Hope and no one else...so...yeah)

Exhibit B - I am not defending Wolverine. Nor is Cap. This is to Cap's credit, remember? Oh...right, nothing can be to Cap's credit.

Exhibit C - Cyke's plan is not the "only one with a slight chance to work"...that doesn't even make sense. If the Phoenix meets up with Hope in space its literally exactly the same thing as what Cyke was planning (training Hope to host) except it removes the possibility of collateral damage. If there IS collateral damage, Cyke's plan is the only one that results in the absolute obliteration of humanity and the Earth...not Caps.

Exhibit D - Cyke is unaware of the flashbacks in New Avengers so using that to bolster the intellect of his plan is a stance that is disingenuous at best, stupid at worst. Also that story is unfolding...maybe she flips out and has to be killed by Da Vinci...that story could go anywhere. Besides, with Bendis' ability to follow his own continuity, maybe she DOES destroy Earth because BMB forgets that the characters he's writing about in the present are on Earth. Could happen.

So yeah...your logic? Can't see it. Sorry.

[RDMacQ]

It's sad. It really is.

I have a lot of comics. Like a lot a lot. I can count the issues of Avengers core book I own on one hand...my X-men collection takes up several hundred issues. If that is expanded to the core X-family books it accounts for a solid quarter of my collection.

Hopefully that dissuades anyone from attacking me as an Avengers fan...

That all said, this is exactly why I stopped reading X-men. They've become insane and their entire purpose is twisted. Cyclops (one of my, historically, favorite characters) acted completely ridiculously by attacking Captain America (EDIT: in the interest of full disclosure, I also think Captain America acted ridiculously by sucker-punching Wolverine and throwing him out a plane...and Cap is also one of my fav characters). What's more, I'm pretty sure over the years the X-boards have gone totally insane...its a breeding ground for crazy.

Here lets follow some of the logic on this board used by people attacking the Avengers (note I say "attacking the Avengers" nor "supporting the X-men"...yes they are not the same thing)...

Exhibit 1. "Cyclops knows more about the Phoenix force than Captain America"

Exhibit 2. "Cyclops didn't even know the Phoenix was on its way until Captain America showed up"

These are arguments put forth by the SAME PEOPLE. The first one is to support the idea that Cyclops DEFINITELY has a better plan (the plan we will refer to as "wishful thinking") than Captain America...and the second one is to support the idea that Cyclops shouldn't have the onus on him to meet the Phoenix head-on or otherwise do something with Hope (other than, y'know, whale on her apparently). So lets get this straight...Cyclops DEFINITELY knows more about the Phoenix than Cap...but is totally unaware of what it is doing (killing billions. Oops!) at the moment. Both these things are, apparently true...and there is no disconnect in those two things at all in the minds of Avengers-attackers. Um...okay. That's sane and reasonable.

1. Captain America was wrong for invading a sovereign nation (no it isn't) to take someone into custody.

2. Cyclops is in the right for invading a sovereign nation to take someone into custody.

Again BOTH these things are being said by Avengers-attackers. Cap has legal authority in Utopia...it's in America. Also Hope is a natural born American citizen. And a minor. However, he is apparently wrong-bad for doing that. Cyclops tried to take Scarlet Witch with no legal authority what-so-ever...but this is A-okay and super awesome.

1. Moon Knight is wrong for attacking Frenzy first. This automatically makes him bad even if he was openly provoked.

2. Cyclops is right for attacking Captain America first. This automatically makes him right even though he wasn't openly provoked.

...okay.

1. Captain America is a fascist evil skrullzinel for trying to take a child into protective custody to attempt to protect the 7 billion people on earth. This makes the Avengers evil supervillains that want to wipe out mutants even though they've always tried to support the X-men and tried to get Scarlet Witch to get them back.

2. When Emma becomes super powerful with the Phoenix (assuming everyone is still alive) she should wipe out the Avengers and the X-men should make sure everyone knows they are powerful and in charge so no one will ever question them. Once that happens, they can make the world into a full Utopia according to what they think it should be like. This makes the X-men super-awesome superheroes and not basically supervillains at all. By the way, we don't know what superheroes do at all and Magneto is totally a good guy! Yay!

So yeah I might have embellished that last one a bit towards the end but still...remember, we are crucifying the Avengers for trying to protect people but the X-men should take over the world and enforce their will.

Oh and one final time...the X-men have MAGNETO on their team. He is evil. He will always be evil. He is going to do evil things in the future. The X-men accept him wholeheartedly and he is in a position of authority on Utopia...this automatically undermines all their decision making. They're idiots if they believe Magneto won't be evil soon...and its that sort of decision making in X-men leadership that has totally turned me off to them. It started with Xavier's evil (which was ludicrous and stupid...) and now its spread to Scott. It makes me a sad panda.

Here' the problem- you're looking at this like a rational fan, who is judging the story on what it IS after having read it.

No, see, the CORRECT way to judge the story is to make up what you WANT to happen, based on your own personal heroic philosophy, and then judge the story against THAT. Also, keep in mind that the Avengers franchise needs to be "punished" for "drifting" away from it's "core values" ever since Bendis came on board, so this story is mean to do that.

I mean, what ELSE could "No More Avengers" mean but be an inditement against everything Bendis did on with the franchise?

[RDMacQ]

Captain America doesn't have a plan.

Well, that's a lie. No need to read the rest of the post if that's what you're leading with.

[sweetdumbass]

See this is why I point out that a lot of what is being said doesn't make sense. Much of what you're saying is clearly untrue.

Exhibit A - Captain America has a plan and its been described several times. Are you reading this event? They are going to get Hope off-planet to meet the Phoenix somewhere where there is no collateral damage, assuming that the Phoenix is coming for Hope (note: if you say that is a bad assumption, it is the same exact assumption that Cyke is making by training Hope and no one else...so...yeah)

Exhibit B - I am not defending Wolverine. Nor is Cap. This is to Cap's credit, remember? Oh...right, nothing can be to Cap's credit.

Exhibit C - Cyke's plan is not the "only one with a slight chance to work"...that doesn't even make sense. If the Phoenix meets up with Hope in space its literally exactly the same thing as what Cyke was planning (training Hope to host) except it removes the possibility of collateral damage. If there IS collateral damage, Cyke's plan is the only one that results in the absolute obliteration of humanity and the Earth...not Caps.

Exhibit D - Cyke is unaware of the flashbacks in New Avengers so using that to bolster the intellect of his plan is a stance that is disingenuous at best, stupid at worst. Also that story is unfolding...maybe she flips out and has to be killed by Da Vinci...that story could go anywhere. Besides, with Bendis' ability to follow his own continuity, maybe she DOES destroy Earth because BMB forgets that the characters he's writing about in the present are on Earth. Could happen.

So yeah...your logic? Can't see it. Sorry.

Taking her off planet is a more dangerous plan than Cyclops one because then you take the risk that Phoenix just doesn't care about Earth and burn it like the rest. Taking her by force after having attacked and locked down her family and friends and then handing her over to the Phoenix with no preparation is a bad plan cuz you might just end up with a Dark Phoenix situation (aka unprepared host, negative emotions). She could easily fly to Earth in a blink and destroy it afterwards, again see DPS.
I brought up Wolverine cuz you said Cap acted ridiculous by kicking off the plane. Which in case, he didn't (act ridiculous) because the guy wanted to kill a child. See, Cap gets some credits from time to time.

I think Cyclops basically admitted that he's making it up as he goes along.

And yet he made the right call.

I'm not saying the X-Men are 100% right in this story, clearly both sides are acting a little stupid. But if Cap had put aside his ego the situation wouldn't be what it is now.

[XPac]

And yet he made the right call.

I'm not saying the X-Men are 100% right in this story, clearly both sides are acting a little stupid. But if Cap had put aside his ego the situation wouldn't be what it is now.

I think it's a tad too early to say who made the right call.

Scott may end up being right. Then again Steve might. Logan might too. We'll see.

My point isn't necessarily who is or isn't right, because we don't know yet. I'm just pointing out that Scott by his own admission doesn't really have a plan and is just making it up as he goes along. Which perhaps goes a long way as far as explaining why his way of doing things ended up starting a fight and losing Hope and his island all in one foul swoop. He just wasn't thinking things through.

[RDMacQ]

Taking her off planet is a more dangerous plan than Cyclops one because then you take the risk that Phoenix just doesn't care about Earth and burn it like the rest.

Whereas Cyclops is risking the entire Earth and if he fails he has no back up.

HOW is this smarter than "remove the girl from Earth?" plan? Oh, right, because people hate the Avengers, that's why.

Taking her by force after having attacked and locked down her family and friends and then handing her over to the Phoenix with no preparation is a bad plan cuz you might just end up with a Dark Phoenix situation (aka unprepared host, negative emotions). She could easily fly to Earth in a blink and destroy it afterwards, again see DPS.

Of course that could happen ANYWAY with Cyclops' plan, and if it DOES then they're on Earth and the entire planet is @#$ed.

But, no, Cap has no plan (which is a lie) so Cyclop's plan is better.

I brought up Wolverine cuz you said Cap acted ridiculous by kicking off the plane. Which in case, he didn't (act ridiculous) because the guy wanted to kill a child. See, Cap gets some credits from time to time.

Except Wolvie was doing what he thought was necessary to save the world.

I'm not saying the X-Men are 100% right in this story,

No, you're just saying the Avengers are 100% wrong.

clearly both sides are acting a little stupid.

So why aren't you criticizing the X-Men? At all?

But if Cyclops had put aside his ego the situation wouldn't be what it is now.

Fixed it for you.

[sweetdumbass]

I think it's a tad too early to say who made the right call.

Scott may end up being right. Then again Steve might. Logan might too. We'll see.

My point isn't necessarily who is or isn't right, because we don't know yet. I'm just pointing out that Scott by his own admission doesn't really have a plan and is just making it up as he goes along. Which perhaps goes a long way as far as explaining why his way of doing things ended up starting a fight and losing Hope and his island all in one foul swoop. He just wasn't thinking things through.

Disagreed, Scott has been preparing for this for a long time. See : Doctor Strange protocol, PR stunt, the whole Extinction team. Like you said it's too early in the event to establish who is the better team. But Logan is definitely wrong like every other Phoenix stories have proved.

[RDMacQ]

Disagreed, Scott has been preparing for this for a long time. See : Doctor Strange protocol, PR stunt, the whole Extinction team. Like you said it's too early in the event to establish who is the better team. But Logan is definitely wrong like every other Phoenix stories have proved.

You JUST said it's too early to judge, and then you said that Logan was "clearly wrong."

You DO realize how contradictory that entire thing is, right?

[XPac]

Disagreed, Scott has been preparing for this for a long time. See : Doctor Strange protocol, PR stunt, the whole Extinction team. Like you said it's too early in the event to establish who is the better team. But Logan is definitely wrong like every other Phoenix stories have proved.

You're not just disagreeing with me... you're sort of disagreeing with Scott. Like I said, he admitted he was basically just making up as he goes along.

As for Logan definately being again... again, we'll have to wait and see. Killing Hope may end up being the right call.

[sweetdumbass]

He may have not worked out the finer details but he knew the battle with the Avengers was coming. Wolverine warned him at the end of Second Coming and Cable confirmed it recently in X-Sanction.
And if Morrisson's X-Men and Phoenix Endsong are anything to go by, then no stabbing won't resolve anything. But then I wouldn't put it past Marvel to ignore previous stories, this event is already full of inaccuracies.

[XPac]

He may have not worked out the finer details but he knew the battle with the Avengers was coming. Wolverine warned him at the end of Second Coming and Cable confirmed it recently in X-Sanction.
And if Morrisson's X-Men and Phoenix Endsong are anything to go by, then no stabbing won't resolve anything. But then I wouldn't put it past Marvel to ignore previous stories, this event is already full of inaccuracies.

I'll say again... it's too early to judge.

He might end up being right, the same way Scott and Steve might. We'll see.

[RDMacQ]

He may have not worked out the finer details but he knew the battle with the Avengers was coming.

So, Cap "doesn't have a plan" despite the fact that the story shows that he has taken several courses of action to deal with the Phoenix threat, but Cyclops DOES "have a plan" despite not knowing the Phoenix was coming to Earth until he was TOLD and "not working out the finer details?"

Wolverine warned him at the end of Second Coming and Cable confirmed it recently in X-Sanction.

So, him sitting on his @$$ and not doing anything constitutes him having a "better plan?"

And if Morrisson's X-Men and Phoenix Endsong are anything to go by, then no stabbing won't resolve anything.

Can't hurt to try. The host's death managed to stop the Phoenix back in the Dark Phoenix saga.

But then I wouldn't put it past Marvel to ignore previous stories, this event is already full of inaccuracies.

I think it has less to do with Marvel "ignoring" past stories then by going with a very well known story, and a handful of people bitching that it's not following the specific story they WANTED it to acknowledge and follow.

[Exo]

Taking her off planet is a more dangerous plan than Cyclops one because then you take the risk that Phoenix just doesn't care about Earth and burn it like the rest.

I don't get it.

If Hope is taken off-world then any incentive the Phoenix has for heading to Earth should be immediately scrubbed for what other new star-system [they'd relocate her to].

[Lascoden]

Two Things.
First: I'm about 98% certain the "Making it up as I go" line was about how they were going to get a Cerebra, and find Hope. He might if had a plan to deal with the PF, but that was shot all to hell at that point.

Second: Cap does not want Hope to bond with the Phoenix, at all. They've said this multiple times now. He wants to get her off world to avoid the PF. So, arguments that Cap wants to take Hope to meet the Phoenix in space are incorrect. This is a matter of whether she should bond with it. Scott=Yes. Cap=No.

[devrim]

Cyclops, Wolverine and Steve's idea are all flawed. But with proof of Jean and Rachel being able to control the phoenix to some extent, Cyclops's plan is the most logical sounding one. Indeed he could try and get Hope into space, just in case it goes wrong, but who says that wasn't his plan all along? We don't know this.
Who says that if Cyclops had proof of the phoenix destroying planets on its way to earth he wouldn't have said: oh shit lets take hope into space, just to be sure! Because don't forget at the moment the avengers attacked the x-men were still in the unknown about what was happening in space, and i don't think magneto has mentioned it yet either( seeing he sensed the phoenix taking out planets)
And maybe Cyclops still will be the one taking hope into space, seeing as to how issue 5 of avx seems to take place on the moon.

All this bitching about Cyclops and his " stupid/ risky" plan is a bit premature by all you Avengers fans.

And about Steve's plan... I don't seem to remember any proof of steve's plan in any of the books, besides saying that he wants to take hope into custody. If anyone would like to point out the issue in which he clearly says that the plan is to take hope into space, i would like that a lot. Because i haven't seen it.
And like many have mentioned before, Why didn't Captain " i am wearing the flag as clothing" America just tried to reason with cyclops by showing him their evidence of the phoenix eating all those planets? Why did he choose to go the totalitarian " I know better, so listen to me you little bitch" route instead of the first let's show him all the facts and convince him route.

And about Wolverine's plan.... Well i'm still scratching my head on that one. True he did promise to take out Hope if the phoenix would take her over, and he is keeping his promise, but he clearly knows that the " main" phoenix force is still in space and that killing hope could be just as useless as trying to shoot the phoenix force with a pellet gun. So why still do it...? I don't know, but we know Hope is going to go to Wolverine and propose him something, so maybe we will hear his reasoning for his maniacal behavior. Let's say for now that he is an idiot, but aren't all the heroes portrayed as idiots in AVX?