Marvel Declares "No More Avengers" With "AvX" Act Two Teaser

[XPac]

I still don't understand why the US should respect Utopian sovereignty when Utopia clearly doesn't grant it the same rights. Doing so would be insane.

Given the fact that Utopia does seem to fly into US soil whenever it dam well pleases, and given that it feels it has the right to dictate due process to every nation on the earth, I do think in the least Utopia no one is going to lose sleep over infringing on Utopia rights.

[deathcry]

Who hasn't invaded the US in the MU? Attilan, Atlantis, Latveria. Didn't Wakanda at some point?

I am not sure why we are still discussing (other than for fun) whether Utopia is a nation. It doesn't matter either way. The Avengers and X-men are always shown entering foreign nations. The Avengers issue before AvX, they invaded Canada to get AIM. We weren't showing them contacting the Canadian government, though they might have. Sovereignty is usually only an issue when it's a plot point. Latveria, and Russia the two biggest examples. Otherwise they usually go wherever the story takes them.
That and the threat is world-wide threat, not just a US threat.

[gregyo]

He has Children fight in wars that they shouldn't without any regard of how it may affect the child's psyche and emotions going on in life when the fighting is over.

That and it would be interesting to see how Cyclops would react to Logan's X-force.

Are you citing Schism? Because you need to look at that in context. A huge Sentinel was coming for all the mutants on the island. Scott's thought process was "Since it's going to kill us all anyway, we might as well use everyone at our disposal to fight it." where Wolverine's was "The kids should be protected at all costs." Both viewpoints are legitimate. I don't see how that make's him fanatical/evil/anything else Avengers-fans describe him as.

Keep in mind, I do freely admit that the guy is dickish.

[Lascoden]

Why is X-Force stepping over the line? I get why it's questionable, but I don't see how it's evil or anything. They went after genocidal monsters, like Selene, the Leper Queen, and Bastion. All of those people threatened the whole world, not just mutants. Besides, isn't it what Cap's SA team was meant to be? A team to go after threats proactively? They killed.

Also, I don't think anybody has given any candidates for leading mutants. And Scott has been training replacements. Dani Moonstar is one of them, and probably the biggest. And that's the whole point of the X-kids. Training the next generation.

[gregyo]

Great tagline. I'm going to somehow work that into bumper stickers for whoever the Republican 2012 Presidential candidate is.


Someone check Dick Cheney for the mutant gene? If he's got it, I say nominate him. Nomnomnom-nominate!! If the mutant DNA fits, you must not quit.


X-Force was only questionable? It was over the line. Add to that the fact that he's all too often quick dickish... and his attempt to set up a sovereign nation within America's borders just by declaring it so, and he's only a few steps behind Magneto in becoming the evil mutant bent on mutant superiority over humanity... but give him time.


He's not evil... yet. Just insane. But give him a little more time on the job and the stress will eat away at whatever compassion he hides behind his dickish exterior, and then he'll be crazy and evil.


This isn't going to be like that time the Justice League of America was wiped away and all of the main Leaguers, without realizing why, formed their own variant JLAs... will it? You know, like Superman and his Justice League of Aliens, Wonder Woman and her Justice League of Amazons, Aquaman and his Justice League of Atlanteans, etc. etc. Because that would just be lame.

Sorry, you have to be trolling. Nothing in the comics I've read shows Cyclops as insane. Furthermore, if you had read the Dark Reign/X-men crossover, you would have seen that creating Utopia was not only awesome, it was the right thing to do. (Also, out in the ocean counts as 'within America's borders?' What?)

So if you want to believe that Cyclops is going to turn evil and insane in the near future, you're free to do so, but just know that you have NO canonical evidence to support that.

[gregyo]

Uh yeah? Xavier was evil and morally bankrupt. That's why he was ousted. He enslaved a being and abused his power. Thats evil. It's stupid....but true.



Hmm....missed the part where Cyke is one of my fav characters huh? Also Magneto is evil. He will never change. I'll give you the same deal I offered others on another thread: got paypal? Betcha ten bucks Magnetoperforms evil acts within 2 years Marvel-time. Hell, probably within 1.

If you think characters are good/evil based on that reasoning, then isn't Iron Man more evil than Xavier? What, with all the locking up superheroes, sending villains after his friends, creating a Thor clone that killed an Avenger, etc...

My point is that if you define a character as good/evil based on evil=did not always do the right thing every single time, then I'll have to assume you're trolling.

[Jim Thompson]

(Also, out in the ocean counts as 'within America's borders?' What?)

Depends how far out it is. If it's within 12 miles of the US coastline, it's considered within US territorial waters and subject to the laws of the US.

[Lascoden]

Depends how far out it is. If it's within 12 miles of the US coastline, it's considered within US territorial waters and subject to the laws of the US.

That may not apply in the MU. Atlantis is recognized, and the entire ocean is their territory.

[Jim Thompson]

That may not apply in the MU. Atlantis is recognized, and the entire ocean is their territory.

Sure, though Marvel does tend to try and incorporate real world sort of details when they can.

[XPac]

Why is X-Force stepping over the line? I get why it's questionable, but I don't see how it's evil or anything. They went after genocidal monsters, like Selene, the Leper Queen, and Bastion. All of those people threatened the whole world, not just mutants. Besides, isn't it what Cap's SA team was meant to be? A team to go after threats proactively? They killed.

Also, I don't think anybody has given any candidates for leading mutants. And Scott has been training replacements. Dani Moonstar is one of them, and probably the biggest. And that's the whole point of the X-kids. Training the next generation.

I hear this all the time, but I don't think X-Force and the Secret Avengers are conceptually comparable.

Secret Avengers is a government sanctioned team that has used lethal force on missions. X-Force is a bunch of heroes who have decided to pro-actively go out and kill people they consider threats. There's a difference there.

I won't say something like X-Force isn't understandable.. but it's not the same thing as Secret Avengers. And even Scott knows it.

[AcesX1X]

Secret Avengers is a government sanctioned team that has used lethal force on missions. X-Force is a bunch of heroes who have decided to pro-actively go out and kill people they consider threats. There's a difference there.

I won't say something like X-Force isn't understandable.. but it's not the same thing as Secret Avengers. And even Scott knows it.

so the only difference is that sa is government sanctioned.

[XPac]

so the only difference is that sa is government sanctioned.

That's a big part of it.

Also, there's the idea of pro-actively trying to kill someone as opposed to using lethal force in the middle of combat.

[Lascoden]

That's a big part of it.

Also, there's the idea of pro-actively trying to kill someone as opposed to using lethal force in the middle of combat.

They may be sanctioned by the US, but they still operate in other nations, without their permission. They violate other nation's sovereignty. And they did go on assassination missions. The guys that X-Force went after weren't actually citizens of anywhere (Bastion), or were fugitives of their nation (Leper Queen). I think that Scott kept it secret because they were mutants, and he knew how a team designed to kill the enemies of mutants would sound on paper.

[XPac]

They may be sanctioned by the US, but they still operate in other nations, without their permission. They violate other nation's sovereignty. And they did go on assassination missions. The guys that X-Force went after weren't actually citizens of anywhere (Bastion), or were fugitives of their nation (Leper Queen). I think that Scott kept it secret because they were mutants, and he knew how a team designed to kill the enemies of mutants would sound on paper.

Our government does have military operating in other nations. You can argue that's wrong too... but I still would still judge that under a different standard than I would private citizens deciding they wanted to kill someone.

[Lascoden]

Our government does have military operating in other nations. You can argue that's wrong too... but I still would still judge that under a different standard than I would private citizens deciding they wanted to kill someone.

I judge them under different standards as well. Each has their good points and bad points. And, in my opinion, one is not more "bad" then the other.