Why hasn't the Ultimate Universe failed?

[Trallis]

These guys are why Ultimate Marvel started strong and continues to be strong.

What incarnation of Spidey is that? I haven't read the first series of Ultimate Spider-man so I'm assuming it's in there

[wyokid]

What incarnation of Spidey is that? I haven't read the first series of Ultimate Spider-man so I'm assuming it's in there

Nope. That's Miles Morales. It's fan art. I just thought it was too awesome to keep to myself

[Trallis]

Nope. That's Miles Morales. It's fan art. I just thought it was too awesome to keep to myself

Ohh yeah. I guess I was confused by the part about them starting strong. I figured there must be another black spider-man costume at the beginning.
Is it your own art? How come none of the X-Men or FF made the pic? At least one from each team would be fair. I'm thinking Johnny Storm and Kitty Pryde, both awesome characters who I never gave a second glance in the main universe

[wyokid]

Ohh yeah. I guess I was confused by the part about them starting strong. I figured there must be another black spider-man costume at the beginning.
Is it your own art? How come none of the X-Men or FF made the pic? At least one from each team would be fair. I'm thinking Johnny Storm and Kitty Pryde, both awesome characters who I never gave a second glance in the main universe

I can't draw to save my life lol. The starting strong part is because Wasp and Giant Man are on there.

[refrax5]

For me, barring Jeph Loeb's awful awful run, it feels more like Marvel to me. Especially the Millar stuff, no one captures the Stan and Jack 60s Marvel like Mark. The characters are more accurate to the heart of them than they are in the 616.

As much as I loveUltimates 1 &2 and even ULtimate Avengers, Millar's biggest flaw, to e, is that he's just a very cynical, mean spirited writer. His characters are mostly arrogant, nasty jerks at best or flat out psychopaths (what Fury did to his wife is pretty much psychotic). Don't get me wrong. I love Ultimate Fury and Hawkeye. But I always feel that Millar tries way too hard to be hip and edgy and everything from him feels like a movie pitch. It just lacks a lot of the optimism and idealism of Lee's stuff to me.

(his other main weakness is that a lot of his characters overuse the exact same phrases and have a similar voice. He's really, really bad about that. I have never, ever in my real life heard anyone call people "cowboy" or "boys and girls" as much as I've heard in a single Millar trade).

[wyokid]

As much as I loveUltimates 1 &2 and even ULtimate Avengers, Millar's biggest flaw, to e, is that he's just a very cynical, mean spirited writer. His characters are mostly arrogant, nasty jerks at best or flat out psychopaths (what Fury did to his wife is pretty much psychotic). Don't get me wrong. I love Ultimate Fury and Hawkeye. But I always feel that Millar tries way too hard to be hip and edgy and everything from him feels like a movie pitch. It just lacks a lot of the optimism and idealism of Lee's stuff to me.

(his other main weakness is that a lot of his characters overuse the exact same phrases and have a similar voice. He's really, really bad about that. I have never, ever in my real life heard anyone call people "cowboy" or "boys and girls" as much as I've heard in a single Millar trade).

Quoted for the MF truth. I knew I wasn't alone

[Assassin Spider]

Quoted for the MF truth. I knew I wasn't alone

I would agree, too, and you see it just as much in his other, more "original" works like Kick-Ass. The idea behind Kick-Ass seemed to be, ultimately, that being a costumed hero was pointless and stupid and self-destructive and all-around pathetic. The general impression by The Ultimates was the same as his Authority run for Wildstorm, namely that nobody with power would actually act out of noble intentions so much as self-delusion or egocentricity with any hints of genuine goodwill buried amid a cavalcade of outright meanness. While Millar may be right in that in real life, people with power more often than not use that power in self-serving ways with self-serving justifications, the point of superhero comics is that there is still some measure of hope, some measure of nobility to be found even within the heart of the common man --- whereas with Millar, there is no nobility to be found anywhere and everyone is equally self-serving no matter whether they're posed as the heroes or the villains.

The one work of his I don't see that in would be his 12-issue opener for Marvel Knights: Spider-Man. It was a darker situation than usually attributed to Spider-Man's stories and with a somewhat more bitterly ironic tone to Spider-Man's narration, but it retained the core of Spider-Man as a good, well-meaning, and ultimately heroic person despite all reason to be otherwise. Then again, this is the same guy who wrote a miniseries implying that Peter was the product of a teenage love affair between his father Richard and his "Aunt" May, so . . .

[MarvelMaster616]

As much as I loveUltimates 1 &2 and even ULtimate Avengers, Millar's biggest flaw, to e, is that he's just a very cynical, mean spirited writer. His characters are mostly arrogant, nasty jerks at best or flat out psychopaths (what Fury did to his wife is pretty much psychotic). Don't get me wrong. I love Ultimate Fury and Hawkeye. But I always feel that Millar tries way too hard to be hip and edgy and everything from him feels like a movie pitch. It just lacks a lot of the optimism and idealism of Lee's stuff to me.

(his other main weakness is that a lot of his characters overuse the exact same phrases and have a similar voice. He's really, really bad about that. I have never, ever in my real life heard anyone call people "cowboy" or "boys and girls" as much as I've heard in a single Millar trade).

I agree that Millar went way too far with making heroes out to be complete assholes. It's an interesting approach to begin with, but he really went overboard with it and I think that's why his work on Ultimate Avengers really slipped and failed to resonate as much as Ultimates 1 and 2. I also think part of the novelty wore off. The Ultimates were just so different from their 616 counterparts and they felt more raw, but if that isn't properly balanced they're just going to come off as even bigger assholes. That seemed to be the problem with a lot of Ultimate books. Marvel just couldn't seem to balance it out so they ended up destroying the whole thing. I don't think it's fixed too many problems since 616 is now outselling Ultimate in ways it didn't used to back when Ultimate first began, but that's another argument that probably isn't suitable for this thread. I still think the reason why Ultimate persists is that Marvel continues to put resources and effort into it. If they keep doing that, the series will continue.

[Emissary of Justice]

To me, it's still limping from the damage Loeb inflicted.

However, as to why it's been so popular? It really isn't that characters are done better or more pure. Unlike the New 52, we were given a full reboot without any previous interactions amongst many of the popular characters from the main continuity. There's no crazy backwards histories like Bishop, Cable, etc. We aren't left wondering, "Why hasn't Bishop figured out that no matter what he does in the main time-stream, his will always turn out badly because it was meant to be that way?"

It's also grounded more in the real world to an extent. It toned down the supernatural and cosmic to massive proportions.

But most importantly? It's not stuck to a particular status quo. Anything can happen.

[wc662]

The Shadowline Saga, Razorline, Marvel 2099, the Ultraverse and NV-2. Marvel has had various imprints dedicated to a universe outside 616 and they all failed within a few years; except for the Ultimate Universe which has been going strong for 10 plus years. What made this line successful? I didn't hop on it when it came out because I wasn't interested in a line that was going to fail in 1-2 years.

Because it has so much WIN in it of course! You should definetly check it out and read all the major parts from the very start! It's better than 616 to me because dead people don't come back, so it gives it a more set in stone feel. Plus you get to see the heroes do things they would never do in 616, giving them a more human feel. For example Tony Stark drinks and pops pills, and they're not fucked up about murdering their enemies if it has to come to that. It also seems more realistic. The only thing I can think of that was retconned was the Iron Man mini's (which aren't worth reading btw)