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  1. #16
    Sentinel of Liberty Drz's Avatar
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    Despite the damage Jeph Loeb has done to Ultimate Marvel that still can be seen, the Ultimate Marvel has very talented people working to receive good reception, good word of mouth and ensure solid sales that make Marvel happy enough to also give promotional material of the series, such as USA TODAY and CBR, not keeping it all silent like some niché marketed mini-series.

    However it also seems Ultimate Marvel is almost a testing ground, with Jonathan Hickman (well, he really properly began with Secret Warriors) doing phenonominal work, he is now letting Sam Humphries carry over, but who is to say Sam Humphries won't get replaced within a year with bold new talent? <_>
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  2. #17

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    I think it hasn't failed because Marvel has put more money and resources into it than any previous alternate universe. Spider-Girl and 2099 never had a huge backing even if it had a loyal contingent of fans. I can't remember them ever getting their own panels at Comic Cons or being actively marketed. I'm sure if they put more marketing and resources into 2099 or titles like X-men Forever, they would have done better. But they haven't and you can say anything you want about the quality. When Marvel puts more resources behind something, it tends to last. Ultimate will fail when that stops and since they've turned Ultimate into this sandbox where they can do anything without any reprocussions or consequences, I don't see them pulling those resources anytime soon.

    That said, if sales keep dropping I think Marvel will do something else to rebrand Ultimate like they have done twice already. Since Marvel puts more resources into these books, I think the threshold for cancelations or relaunch is much higher compared to X-men Forever or Spider-Girl. I don't think it's reached that threshold yet, but once it does I can definitely see yet another relaunch.
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  3. #18
    Commander Dark Guard CaptainMarvell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelMaster616 View Post
    I think it hasn't failed because Marvel has put more money and resources into it than any previous alternate universe. Spider-Girl and 2099 never had a huge backing even if it had a loyal contingent of fans. I can't remember them ever getting their own panels at Comic Cons or being actively marketed. I'm sure if they put more marketing and resources into 2099 or titles like X-men Forever, they would have done better.
    I never heard of X-Men Forever till this post. Its an alternate reality X-Men team? I'll have to check that out.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMarvell View Post
    I never heard of X-Men Forever till this post. Its an alternate reality X-Men team? I'll have to check that out.
    X-men Forever was a series that ran for a year and a half under Chris Claremont. It basically followed the X-men after X-men #3 (released in 1991), which was Claremont's last issue before he left the X-books. It essentially is an extended What If series that shows what he would have done if he hadn't left Marvel and had no editorial restraints. The result wasn't very good. It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't very good. It declined in sales quite steadily and was canceled early when the sales got too low. It had it's moments and it had some pretty novel concepts. I won't say you shouldn't read it, but check out Amazon. I know they have some graphic novel compliations of the series. If you really want to see an alternate take by one of the best X-men writers of all time, I recommend you give it a shot.
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  5. #20
    Commander Dark Guard CaptainMarvell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelMaster616 View Post
    X-men Forever was a series that ran for a year and a half under Chris Claremont. It basically followed the X-men after X-men #3 (released in 1991), which was Claremont's last issue before he left the X-books. It essentially is an extended What If series that shows what he would have done if he hadn't left Marvel and had no editorial restraints. The result wasn't very good. It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't very good. It declined in sales quite steadily and was canceled early when the sales got too low. It had it's moments and it had some pretty novel concepts. I won't say you shouldn't read it, but check out Amazon. I know they have some graphic novel compliations of the series. If you really want to see an alternate take by one of the best X-men writers of all time, I recommend you give it a shot.
    That's actually pretty cool. I pulled up various issues on Marvel wiki and noticed a lot of the characters wearing their 90's costumes, but now that makes sense. Back then, I quit reading comics around X-Men #20. That's an awesome idea to have it pick up right then. I think I will give it a shot. Thanks

  6. #21
    Gamebreaker Wellman's Avatar
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    Not to derail the thread but I also just wanted it stated that X-Men Forever was also a title to a X-Men mini in the late 90s maybe the early 2000s that involved time travel by Fabian Nicieza


    AS forth the Ultimate universe, I think a big amount of its endurance is owed to its willingness to abandon the 616. At first it was just modern updates of 616 concepts without the clunky history behind them for a new audience and it worked, but somewhere down the line, Millar and Bendis realized they can do much more then just update the 616 and with Morrison doing something similar in New X-Men, it was decided to just throw out the book and get cooky.

    With big name creators behind most of the changes, many grew popular but at the same time, it was probably Loeb that asked them to go for broke and they did so. It didn't do that well the first time, save for Ultimate Spider-man and even that was losing it's luster. So in house, they decided try it again except this time do the unthinkable and kill off the most popular character. Bendis who probably enjoyed the challenge did so and we get the current Ultimate universe. Time will tell but I think with the right management, it still has another 5 to 10 years left in it.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Trallis's Avatar
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    1. Marvel has a habit of putting really awesome well known writers on the Ultimate books, and sticking with the same writers for extended periods of time.
    2. The Ultimate Universe is a little bit more grounded(especially for people who like to feel organized) in that there aren't a countless number of characters, half of whom have already died and come back several times. Resurrection doesn't happen as a cheap excuse to get more mileage out of an old idea.. it's used only when it creates a good story. This means the readers aren't always rolling their eyes when a character dies. It's either gonna be permanent or memorable for some other reason.
    3. Ultimate Universe kept everything most people liked about the characters who were Ultimatized. We all know Spidey was originally bitten by a radioactive spider, but having him bit by a genetically engineered spider adds new possibilities to the story without taking anything away.
    4. Ultimate comics are pretty as hell. In other words Marvel tends to do the same thing I said in #1 with the artists too.
    5. There are no bogus filler issues where stories don't progress anywhere, and there are no spin offs or one-shots that are inconsequential to the story. You buy an Ultimate Marvel Comic, even if it isn't a great comic it's never a waste of time.

  8. #23
    1906 Xistel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trallis View Post
    1. Marvel has a habit of putting really awesome well known writers on the Ultimate books, and sticking with the same writers for extended periods of time.
    2. The Ultimate Universe is a little bit more grounded(especially for people who like to feel organized) in that there aren't a countless number of characters, half of whom have already died and come back several times. Resurrection doesn't happen as a cheap excuse to get more mileage out of an old idea.. it's used only when it creates a good story. This means the readers aren't always rolling their eyes when a character dies. It's either gonna be permanent or memorable for some other reason.
    3. Ultimate Universe kept everything most people liked about the characters who were Ultimatized. We all know Spidey was originally bitten by a radioactive spider, but having him bit by a genetically engineered spider adds new possibilities to the story without taking anything away.
    4. Ultimate comics are pretty as hell. In other words Marvel tends to do the same thing I said in #1 with the artists too.
    5. There are no bogus filler issues where stories don't progress anywhere, and there are no spin offs or one-shots that are inconsequential to the story. You buy an Ultimate Marvel Comic, even if it isn't a great comic it's never a waste of time.
    Quoted for truth!

    Really the only sore point in the UU was ultimatum (the way it was handled, because it had a good idea behind it.)

    on a more personal note, peter's death.

    Looking at everything you've said, it makes me feel like 616 needs to clean up. a reboot or something, so that they can do things better now that they have the experience from the UU. That would really be nice. It wouldn't have to be some crazy crazy thing.

  9. #24
    Junior Member DoctorOak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trallis View Post
    5. There are no bogus filler issues where stories don't progress anywhere, and there are no spin offs or one-shots that are inconsequential to the story. You buy an Ultimate Marvel Comic, even if it isn't a great comic it's never a waste of time.
    The latest issue of Ultimate X-Men would like a word...

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorOak View Post
    The latest issue of Ultimate X-Men would like a word...
    It certaintly didn't feel inconsequential to me. Nor did it seem like 'filler'.

    However I'm not fully sure whether you and I mean the same thing. The issue was slow-paced, sure. But at least it wasn't fast paced.

    Detailed, explanatory, substantial, thorough story-telling crammed into a small page-count. If you agree with this, perhaps it has more to do with the publisher making cuts. But personally I'd prefer it if Nick Spencer didn't change the flow of his story to accommodate it. Otherwise it could be detrimental to the entire arc.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trallis View Post
    5. There are no bogus filler issues where stories don't progress anywhere, and there are no spin offs or one-shots that are inconsequential to the story. You buy an Ultimate Marvel Comic, even if it isn't a great comic it's never a waste of time.
    Card's Ultimate Iron Man and Ultimate Iron Man II

  12. #27
    Senior Member superchick's Avatar
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    For me, barring Jeph Loeb's awful awful run, it feels more like Marvel to me. Especially the Millar stuff, no one captures the Stan and Jack 60s Marvel like Mark. The characters are more accurate to the heart of them than they are in the 616.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by superchick View Post
    For me, barring Jeph Loeb's awful awful run, it feels more like Marvel to me. Especially the Millar stuff, no one captures the Stan and Jack 60s Marvel like Mark. The characters are more accurate to the heart of them than they are in the 616.
    I 100% disagree.

  14. #29
    Sentinel of Liberty Drz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superchick View Post
    For me, barring Jeph Loeb's awful awful run, it feels more like Marvel to me. Especially the Millar stuff, no one captures the Stan and Jack 60s Marvel like Mark. The characters are more accurate to the heart of them than they are in the 616.
    Amen brother!
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  15. #30
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    These guys are why Ultimate Marvel started strong and continues to be strong.

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