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  1. #91
    Veteran Member Arachnid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surtur View Post
    I really don't see how it doesn't make sense, given First Class definitely isn't in the same universe as the other films. Otherwise Emma Frost is some kind of immortal who somehow de-aged herself, among other things.
    Like I said, continuity errors. A massive one, but a continuity error all the same. Comics have retcons and errors all the time, but we don't throw out all the stuff that came before as a different universe. The James Bond movies have their fair share of changes and actor switch ups, but Bond always gets his feats from all the movies in the few rumbles I've seen him in on these forums.

    Here is a list of all the errors:
    -At the end of First Class, we see the incident that paralyzes Professor X from the waist down. Mind you, this movie takes place in the 60s. In the movie, The Last Stand, the opening scene shows Professor X walking, which is set to be 80s.
    -In the same opening scene in The Last Stand, Xavier and Magneto are still friends. In First Class, they have already went their separate ways.
    -In X-Men Origins: Wolverine, we also see Professor X standing at the end of the film.
    -Back to the Wolverine movie, during the escape of Three Mile Island, we see Emma Frost as a teenager. In First Class (which happens years before), she is an adult. Of course, they never mentioned her name in the movie, but the actress was credited as "Emma Frost."
    -In the first X-Men movie, Xavier states that his first meeting with Magneto was when they were teenagers. In First Class, they are grown men the first time they meet.
    -In X2, we see Beast in human form. In First Class, we see him transform from human to blue mutant. Unless he was able to transform himself back to human, and decided to turn himself blue again in The Last Stand, that just wouldn't make any sense.
    -First Class establishes that Hank McCoy (Beast) was the one who built Cerebro. In the first movie, Professor X explains that he built it with the help of Magneto.
    -Because it was stated that Magneto helped Professor X construct Cerebro, Magneto was able to build a helmet that was impervious to telepathy. Well in First Class, Magneto merely takes the helmet from Sebastian Shaw.
    -In First Class, during the scene when Xavier uses Cerebro for the first time, we see a young Storm cameo. That would mean Storm in the trilogy should be about 50 years old. I'm sure this was made clearly for fan service, but I'm just sayin'.
    -In The Last Stand, Mystique becomes cured from her mutation, where we see her revert into a brunette. In First Class, she's a blonde. First Class also establishes that her blue form is her "true" form, which means she was born blue. If being "cured" in The Last Stand means she gains a human appearance, I'm going to assume that she had normal skin before her blueish scales. So which one came first?
    -Moira Mactaggert seems to look about the same age in both First Class and The Last Stand, which is set decades apart.
    And of course, the Sabretooth thing.

    I do understand that this is kind of a weird situation, but I don't think that means we should just say 'Different Universe' to make it make sense. I don't know. Maybe we need a ruling on this kind of thing.
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  2. #92
    Astral God Surtur's Avatar
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    Yeah, but the continuity error reasoning can only go so far.

    Though I don't know why a ruling would be required, as it's not like we'd grant Victor's feats from Origins to the one that appeared in X1. He never, for instance, showed the healing factor he had in Origins. So there really wouldn't be any reason to suddenly grant him that. It's different then say..Wolverine, who definitely had a healing factor in every single movie he appeared in. It might of been inconsistent, but it was definitely there.

    On a board that trucks in feats, I really can't see a ruling ever being made that Sabretooth from X1 would be granted the feats of Viktor from Origins. Especially since he never once showed a healing factor that I recall. It wouldn't make much sense to then grant him it.

    Also, as far as retcons, we do sometimes have different versions of the same character, even if in the comic they are supposed to be one and the same. One example is Pre Retcon Beyonder. He's the same person post retcon, yet he isn't granted the feats of his pre retcon version.

    Or post crisis Darkseid, who as far as I know, wasn't affected by the crisis and was supposedly the exact same person he was pre crisis. Yet here, pre and post crisis Darkseid are treated as different characters, when it comes to feats at least. So even if all the X films did take place in the same universe, the X1 version still wouldn't be granted the feats of the Origins version.
    Last edited by Surtur; 05-09-2012 at 09:49 AM.
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  3. #93
    The King is always around BYC's Avatar
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    If I remember correctly, Bryan Singer wasn't involved in First Class or Wolverine at all, so those are vastly out of line in continuity. Of course there are still plenty of other errors and inconsistencies.

  4. #94
    Veteran Member Arachnid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surtur View Post
    Yeah, but the continuity error excuse can only go so far. There are way too many contradictory things in the various movies.

    Though I don't know why a ruling would be required, as it's not like we'd grant Victor's feats from Origins to the one that appeared in X1. He never, for instance, showed the healing factor he had in Origins. So there really wouldn't be any reason to suddenly grant him that. It's different then say..Wolverine, who definitely had a healing factor in every single movie he appeared in.

    On a board that trucks in feats, I really can't see a ruling ever being made that Sabretooth from X1 would be granted the feats of Viktor from Origins. Especially since he never once showed a healing factor that I recall. It wouldn't make much sense to then grant him it.

    Also, as far as retcons, we do sometimes have different versions of the same character, even if in the comic they are supposed to be one and the same. One example is Pre Retcon Beyonder. He's the same person post retcon, yet he isn't granted the feats of his pre retcon version.

    Or post crisis Darkseid, who as far as I know, wasn't affected by the crisis and was supposedly the exact same person he was pre crisis. Yet here, pre and post crisis Darkseid are treated as different characters, when it comes to feats at least.
    But wouldn't a mod ruling be required to consider them different characters? I assumed Victor had his healing factor in X1 because he took getting stabbed by Wolverine multiple times just fine. He also survived being optic blasted by Cyclops in the beginning and that was the same blast that was taking massive chunks out of buildings. He was also struck by a lightning blast from storm so powerful that it propelled him good 60 feet backwards through a metal/concrete wall. Origins and First class were referred to as prequels multiple times during their development stage. Matthew Vaughn himself stated that First Class was a prequel and not a reboot. Continuity errors just don't seem like a good enough reason to make two characters that are implied to be the same character not the same character and consider them to be from completely different universes.
    "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science."

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  5. #95
    Swedish Shinigami Dark Soul # 7's Avatar
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    I think that idea is that X-men 1 and 2 are in the same continuity as First Class and that we're supposed to ignore the shit out of The Last Stand and Wolverine.
    Last edited by Dark Soul # 7; 05-09-2012 at 10:35 AM.

  6. #96
    Veteran Member Arachnid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Soul # 7 View Post
    I think that idea is that X-men 1 and 2 are in the same continuity and that we're supposed to ignore the shit out of The Last Stand and Wolverine.
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    Oh, you mean because of quality. I get it now. That's understandable, and sounds good to me.
    "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science."

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  7. #97
    Astral God Surtur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arachnid View Post
    But wouldn't a mod ruling be required to consider them different characters?
    It seems like something that shouldn't really be needed, the characters have enough differences in their abilities and just overall portrayals. Heck just the way the Origins movie version moved on all 4's is quite different from anything we ever saw the X1 version do.

    I assumed Victor had his healing factor in X1 because he took getting stabbed by Wolverine multiple times just fine. He also survived being optic blasted by Cyclops in the beginning and that was the same blast that was taking massive chunks out of buildings. He was also struck by a lightning blast from storm so powerful that it propelled him good 60 feet backwards through a metal/concrete wall. Origins and First class were referred to as prequels multiple times during their development stage. Matthew Vaughn himself stated that First Class was a prequel and not a reboot. Continuity errors just don't seem like a good enough reason to make two characters that are implied to be the same character not the same character and consider them to be from completely different universes.
    Yeah, but statements by the directors don't really mean anything, when it comes to a rumble at least. If both versions have healing factors, then they really wouldn't need to borrow feats from each other in the first place. Unless one version had a significantly better healing factor, in which case that would just be another reason for the different versions. You can ask for a ruling if you want, but based on my experience here such a ruling probably wouldn't be granted. Reason being there are plenty of other cases here of the same character in the same universe having technically more then 1 version of them as far as rumbles goes.

    This isn't the first time movie versions of Sabretooth have been put in a rumble. I've never before seen people use feats from Origins to argue rumbles with the one from X1, nor have I seen the opposite ever happen.
    Last edited by Surtur; 05-09-2012 at 11:25 AM.
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  8. #98
    DOOM DEMANDS MORE NACHOS!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadman25 View Post
    a man in a metal suit can make a move faster than a metal who can control metal ? the sec magneto sees Iron man its over for him. Stark has to raise his arm and point and aim. Magneto would already have control before Stark even tries to lift his arm.

    Movie Magneto lacks any such feats.

    And Stark doesn't need to "lift" anything to off Mags - he's got a chest laser.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arachnid View Post
    But wouldn't a mod ruling be required to consider them different characters? I assumed Victor had his healing factor in X1 because he took getting stabbed by Wolverine multiple times just fine. He also survived being optic blasted by Cyclops in the beginning and that was the same blast that was taking massive chunks out of buildings. He was also struck by a lightning blast from storm so powerful that it propelled him good 60 feet backwards through a metal/concrete wall. Origins and First class were referred to as prequels multiple times during their development stage. Matthew Vaughn himself stated that First Class was a prequel and not a reboot. Continuity errors just don't seem like a good enough reason to make two characters that are implied to be the same character not the same character and consider them to be from completely different universes.
    At the end of the day, it's best if the OP just states what he wants, at least for the characters majorly concerned by this - notably Wolverine and Sabes.

  10. #100
    Senior Member Deadman25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Movie Magneto lacks any such feats.

    And Stark doesn't need to "lift" anything to off Mags - he's got a chest laser.
    Yeah magneto lacks stoping the high speed vehicles going at him on the interstate. Also lacks moving the golden gate bridge. Also lacks knowing the smell of a metal object from a mil e away. Also lacks stopping a bullet

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by BYC View Post
    If I remember correctly, Bryan Singer wasn't involved in First Class or Wolverine at all, so those are vastly out of line in continuity. Of course there are still plenty of other errors and inconsistencies.
    Singer was involved in First Class. He was producer and oversaw the script. Basically, First Class is in continuity but Matt Vaughn, with Singer and Fox's blessing, just ignored and contradicted the shit he didn't like.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadman25 View Post
    Yeah magneto lacks stoping the high speed vehicles going at him on the interstate. Also lacks moving the golden gate bridge. Also lacks knowing the smell of a metal object from a mil e away. Also lacks stopping a bullet
    Regarding "high speed vehicles"
    These were large trucks that were travelling at around... what... 70 miles per hour max? Magneto was so far from them that he had time to stand and look at them for quite some time. This in no way presents any kind of speed. And, more on the topic at hand, he had to move his arms in the direction he was flinging them.
    In fact, I've just watched the scene. They were travelling at what seemed to be more like 30-40 miles per hour on a single lane (i.e. slow speed limit) road.

    Regarding "moving the Golden Gate Bridge"
    Nothing to do with speed at all. In fact, it took him a while to move it at all - just a lot of rumbling and nothing really happening for a few seconds. And, as above, more important is the fact that he did indeed have to move his arms to move it and direct it.

    Regarding the "smell of a metal object from a mile away"
    I don't recall that scene, so can't comment. But what I do know is that whether or not he can "smell" metal from a mile away is completely irrelevant to the "can he quickdraw Tony's chest laser" debate.

    Regarding "stopping a bullet"
    This is what I was saying about exaggerating feats. You have repeatedly been told that this was a bullet that he fired. The impressiveness of this "feat" therefore VASTLY decreases. It's a nothing feat.

  13. #103
    Eleventh Reincarnation Siriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJ Stewart View Post
    Regarding "stopping a bullet"
    This is what I was saying about exaggerating feats. You have repeatedly been told that this was a bullet that he fired. The impressiveness of this "feat" therefore VASTLY decreases. It's a nothing feat.
    I wouldn't go that far. A regular human could shoot themselves and they still wouldn't be able to react to the bullet in any way.

    Exaggerating a feat and downplaying a feat are both just as bad.
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  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    I wouldn't go that far. A regular human could shoot themselves and they still wouldn't be able to react to the bullet in any way.

    Exaggerating a feat and downplaying a feat are both just as bad.
    But Magneto being in control of all metal in an area practically means he already had a "hand" where he wanted the bullet to stop.

    Kind of like if I place my hand on wall, then fire at it. I haven't used any speed to "stop" that bullet with my hand, my hand was just already there.

    This is basically the non-physical interpretation of that.

    Magneto's an old man with absolutely nothing else, in terms of showings, that suggests he could react to anything close to the speed of a bullet.

    So, by board rules, even if he actually had "reacted" to bullet speed, I'd call PIS.

    But the fact he knew where that bullet was headed means he could already be directing his own magnetic forces at the point which the bullet stopped i.e. he already had his "hand" there.

    I wasn't downplaying it. I was suggesting that the method he MUST have used, given that he's basically a frail old human male, was the one I have just described.

  15. #105
    God Of Tokusatsu Guy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    I wouldn't go that far. A regular human could shoot themselves and they still wouldn't be able to react to the bullet in any way.
    Ha, I just had a flashback to Kung Fu Hustle.
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