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  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules View Post
    He certainly looks like a every man here. Like I have said before Blue Jeans and a T shirt doesn't scream Superman or Man of Tomorrow. It's Bruce Springsteen with Superpowers.
    It's symbolic of the everyman, it doesn't mean he is the everyman. It's who he represents and looks out for, not who he is. Take John Henry (the steel driving man, not the super-hero) or Paul Bunyan. They represent the everyman, but are clearly not themselves. I hope that clarifies what I'm saying.

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexrules View Post
    I think your taking to much away from this then you should. They say he is a farmboy at heart because of the way he was raised and where he was raised. It has nothing to do with being afraid of anything or anyone. You seem to forget Superman is different things to different people.
    I think you're seeing something in my view that isn't there. That's okay, though.

    The whole push DC made toward deemphasizing Superman's alien heritage since 1986, including even having him born on Earth, definitely seems somewhat xenophobic to me. As if someone is less American just because they aren't born on American soil.

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellacre View Post
    It's a very simple one dimensional way to explain a man imo. It's a description to me that feels old now and more for the Clark is all I am Superman is what I do version that tried to explain away who he is.
    Indeed. I wasn't a fan of "Lois and Clark's" rather glib way of explaining Superman in that way. To me it seemed like an attempt to make Superman smaller for people who couldn't handle the grander of the character.

    I would rather say he a farmer's son and they can be raised tough and be very intelligent and driven and go on to great things. If they mean by that statement he likes rustic things or the simple things in life...great...but don't use it as the excuse why he won't step up, or why he seems to be indecisive or sees everything is black and white, or he just sees Superman as some chore and whines to be normal.
    This. Superman definitely has respect and maybe a nostalgia for farm-life, but portraying him as naive or someone whose values are simply Midwestern completely misses the point.

    I am so glad Morrison moved away from that and shows Clark being the son of a good decent human being who just happens to be a farmer. Heck, Clark would probably have more a streak of a cowboy in him than yuppie as well. But it's all generalizations and I like that he is not one or the other. He is Clark, Kal-El and Superman.
    Yeah, Clark was kind of an unbearable yuppie more than a farmboy in parts of the eighties and nineties. I really disliked that.

  4. #19
    a nasty piece of work Let's Kill Hitler's Avatar
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    I guess this is really an arguement of "nature vs nurture". I like how Grant Morrison worked this into Action comics in issue 7 & 8, as well as the way he left it up in the air. It really is up to interpritation, I don't think the scales tip too far either way. I will say that I think he's been more farmboy than alien in Action comics so far, but I'd say that makes sense for when he's young and weaker powered.

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Let's Kill Hitler View Post
    I guess this is really an arguement of "nature vs nurture". I like how Grant Morrison worked this into Action comics in issue 7 & 8, as well as the way he left it up in the air. It really is up to interpritation, I don't think the scales tip too far either way. I will say that I think he's been more farmboy than alien in Action comics so far, but I'd say that makes sense for when he's young and weaker powered.
    I think it's both nature and nurture, and not just the kind we immediately think. Superman definitely has a biological bias towards good, but the Kents clearly brought it out to a large degree and shaped the form of good it took (Jonathan Kent certainly seems to have Superman's Robin Hood attitude--in contrast to the wise, Lawful Good Jonathan we're more used to). Then there's likely the non-human nurturing Superman might gain later, from holograms of his parents or files from the brainwashed Brainiac that might influence him in ways more toward his birth father that DON'T have to do with pure genetics. And one must also take into account the effect Superman's peers have on him--there's currently some interesting, though still controversial, data suggesting that a person's friends are just as important (if not more so) than their parents.

    In short, it's more than just the Kents and Els at work on Superman.

  6. #21
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    Yeah the whole Byrne reboot was basically in the wake of 80s Regan Americanism. They even gave him a birthing matrix so, you know, that he wasn't a filthy foreigner.

  7. #22
    It's Lexrules... GET HIM. Lexrules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotSuper View Post
    It's symbolic of the everyman, it doesn't mean he is the everyman. It's who he represents and looks out for, not who he is. Take John Henry (the steel driving man, not the super-hero) or Paul Bunyan. They represent the everyman, but are clearly not themselves. I hope that clarifies what I'm saying.
    Fair enough

  8. #23
    It's Lexrules... GET HIM. Lexrules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    Yeah the whole Byrne reboot was basically in the wake of 80s Regan Americanism. They even gave him a birthing matrix so, you know, that he wasn't a filthy foreigner.
    Yea. America is built on foreigners so your logic is all wrong. Don't let a few short minded people which are everywhere not just America give you the idea we are all like that.
    Last edited by Lexrules; 05-09-2012 at 07:46 AM.

  9. #24
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    It's not a few short minded people, it was the overall feeling at the time.

  10. #25
    It's Lexrules... GET HIM. Lexrules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    It's not a few short minded people, it was the overall feeling at the time.
    I don't know how you came to that but I don't think that was the case. You seem to forget that this was created in 85 by John Byrne a Englishmen. You seem to be against the idea of what America really means or just don't understand it especially at the time. Let's not forget we where still in the cold war era. England was as much a part on of the Cold War as we were and believed pretty much the same thing we did at the time.
    Last edited by Lexrules; 05-09-2012 at 08:13 AM.

  11. #26
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    Since I clearly stated this was about the 80s, I don't think I forgot this was in 85.

  12. #27
    It's Lexrules... GET HIM. Lexrules's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    Since I clearly stated this was about the 80s, I don't think I forgot this was in 85.
    Ok, Then what's your grip today then about America because it's obvious you have something against the whole idea.

  13. #28
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotSuper View Post
    And some of his morals come from a more biological source.
    Which raises the question as to why Zod and co turned out the way they did...

  14. #29
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    I agree that 'farmboy' is a bit of an over-simplification. Clark Kent MAY have been a farm-boy, perhaps he feels some nostalgia to the farm-boy life, but he is also a reporter working in a 'great metropolitan newspaper', a sophisticated urban individual. And all that's not even accounting for the fact that he's secretly an alien and a superhero.

    One of the minor gripes I have about the new origin is that Morrison seems to have done away with Clark's years of traveling the world. To my mind, in the previous origins, THAT was what marked Clark's transformation from farm-boy into a worldly individual prepared to take on the task of becoming the world's greatest hero. Now however, Clark is a guy who moves to the big city fresh off the farm and launches a journalistic crusade against the corrupt while embarking on a parallel career as a feared vigilante. In a sense, I suppose you could say that makes Clark (at least during the time frame of 'Action') MORE of a 'farm-boy' than he was before the reboot, but even then, I agree with the previous posters who said that he has out-grown the farm-boy phase.

  15. #30
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    One of the minor gripes I have about the new origin is that Morrison seems to have done away with Clark's years of traveling the world.
    At the moment, just because we haven't seen flashbacks of his travels it doesn't mean they didn't occur. However:

    To my mind, in the previous origins, THAT was what marked Clark's transformation from farm-boy into a worldly individual prepared to take on the task of becoming the world's greatest hero. Now however, Clark is a guy who moves to the big city fresh off the farm and launches a journalistic crusade against the corrupt while embarking on a parallel career as a feared vigilante. In a sense, I suppose you could say that makes Clark (at least during the time frame of 'Action') MORE of a 'farm-boy' than he was before the reboot, but even then, I agree with the previous posters who said that he has out-grown the farm-boy phase.
    This ignores his time with the Legion - it's strongly implied that he had adventures with them when he was younger. So he's more of a 'guy who moves to the big city after growing up on a farm and travelling through time and space and having various adventures', which should make him more than a 'worldly individual' ;)

    (Of course, if Saturn Girl suppressed his memories of those adventures then we're back to your point...(darn it))
    Last edited by adkal; 05-09-2012 at 10:08 AM.

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