Should the Black Widow become a crime-fighting partner of Spider-Man?

[Darthfury78]

Sorry, Darthfury. I can give you Silver Sable, but I cannot see Peter with Natasha as a close associate or a lover. They live in two different worlds. I think Dan Slott got Natasha perfectly when she asked Sable if she would've rather gotten Captain America as help instead of Spiderman. Natasha kinda looks down on the character I'd bet. I'm curious to see if she gains a new perspective on Spidey after end of earth is over.

Natasha's reaction to Spidey was the fact that his wisecrack jokes is what prevented them from having a friendship. I never said that they should be lovers. And I compare The Black Widow to Ms. Marvel, who has an unlikely friendship with Peter Parker, and her world is vastly different from Peter's. Since The Black Widow is working closely with Spider-Man, I have to assume that she's been shocked at his real persona, which is a side to Spider-Man that she's never seen before. And if Silver Sable had picked Captain America, all three of them would have been defeated by The Sand Man. I can't see how Natasha is going to ignore Spider-Man after seeing his real personality for herself and that the wisecrack jokes was just a mask as he never acts in this manner as Peter Parker. I just want to see The Black Widow establish a real friendship with Spider-Man outside of The Avengers social circle on a future team-up adventure together. I would certainly buy a Black Widow mini-series if she was in a team-up story with Spider-Man. Something that has yet to happen in recent times.

[lilyinblue]

Ironic since The Black Widow is currently a crime fight partner for Spider-Man in The Ends of the Earth storyline.

Sometimes it is the plot that drives the team-up. Sometimes what works in a one-off situation won't work as a regular things. That it is special, unique, out-of-the-ordinary, etc. is sometimes the precise magic that makes the right team-up at the right time work.

[Ziggy Stardust]

For Natasha to look down on Spidey with all the history they share....

Not good, Mr Slott.

[Frank]

Except she never does that. Tragic romance is a core part of her character concept, she is a widow, her loyalty to the KGB was motivated partially by the loss of her husband, she is very guarded about personal relationships because people she loves tend to die, because her profession has tried to make her dispassionate and removed. This is like, basic stuff. It would be a big deal for her. It's almost always a big deal. She's not a very open person, just at all.

She's had a tragic past but I don't think it makes her the kind of recluse you are talking about. I see her as a gung ho sexy spy. I don't like the idea of her ready to enter the monastery.

And Peter doesn't find her that appealing, either. I don't know how getting older would have changed that.

No man don't find Widow not appealing.

[Darthfury78]

Sometimes it is the plot that drives the team-up. Sometimes what works in a one-off situation won't work as a regular things. That it is special, unique, out-of-the-ordinary, etc. is sometimes the precise magic that makes the right team-up at the right time work.

This is what I am trying to say. The story plot is what drives the team-up stories. If the story had featured Venom and The Black Cat, the story would not have held my interest. But with The Black Widow and Silver Sable, it does. Imagine if past Spider-Writers had used The Black Widow in a team-up story with Spider-Man in some of the past storylines might have made them interesting to read about instead of the same old thing over and over again. There were some past stories that might have worked out better with The Black Widow and Spider-Man working together and vice versa. The main reason why I feel that some of the heroines(alternate crime fighting partners) teaming up with Spidey could make some of those stories work out in ways that the regular cast members, like The Black Cat could not.

I don't believe that Brian Bendis or any other Avengers writer has ever presented Spider-Man in a manner as Dan Slott has. Those writers had made Spider as nothing more than a comic relief in the Avengers. If they were writing Ends of Earth instead of Dan Slott, the story wouldn't be as good as it has. And there was no way that they would have presented Spidey's leadership skills and intellect towards The Black Widow and Silver Sable.

[Frank]

The fact that you can write "Bendis jokey characterization" tells me that you know absolutely nothing about Spider-Man. The jokey characterization is the core of what Spider-Man is and always has been (Bendis doesn't have anything to do with it), and it's got nothing whatsoever to do with not being an adult. This is a part of Spider-Man that can never, ever be removed, except in the short term. Joking is how Peter naturally deals with life's ups and especially downs. It's not a sign of immaturity. And above all, it's what makes Spider-Man such a loved character. Spider-Man and Deadpool are basically the same character, except for Peter's scientific background and moral compass.

Bendis turned Spider-Man and Peter into a standup comedian! In the past he was a tragic hero, he was a hero first and sometime he cracked jokes. You read Avengers with Bendis on it and it's like Spider-Man is half drunk all the time and is a pathetic hero. It's like Bendis is slamming us over the head saying "look he's the funny hero, he's funny remember!". It's pretty forced.

Anyway, Natasha is fairly open sexually, but that has nothing to do with anything. She's far too serious to ever be with someone like Peter. And the feeling is probably mutual. She likely scares the crap out of Peter. They do not have the same moral/ethical beliefs. Everything that is necessary for even the start of a good relationship fails between them.

And the idea of sticking them together because they are both spider-themed character is just absurd.

That's the thing, the only way I would read a comic about them as a team would be because of the spider theme and if they were lovers. It's shallow but it's because I wouldn't see the point of this team-up in the first place. It's like having a book with Thor and Doc Samson or something.

[lilyinblue]

Imagine if past Spider-Writers had used The Black Widow in a team-up story with Spider-Man in some of the past storylines might have made them interesting to read about instead of the same old thing over and over again. There were some past stories that might have worked out better with The Black Widow and Spider-Man working together and vice versa. The main reason why I feel that some of the heroines(alternate crime fighting partners) teaming up with Spidey could make some of those stories work out in ways that the regular cast members, like The Black Cat could not.

That's sort of the opposite of the point I was trying to make. It worked here. But shoe-horning Tasha into Spidey's world in a lot of other places, I think, would make her seem very out of place.

[Hrist]

She's had a tragic past but I don't think it makes her the kind of recluse you are talking about. I see her as a gung ho sexy spy. I don't like the idea of her ready to enter the monastery.

Wow, there's really no middle ground between virgin and whore for you, is there? It's clear you see her as sexy gung-ho spy, but that's not how she is written in her stories.

No man don't find Widow not appealing.

Any character with real personality traits isn't going to be universally appealing. That's a sex fantasy, not a character.

[Frank]

Wow, there's really no middle ground between virgin and whore for you, is there? It's clear you see her as sexy gung-ho spy, but that's not how she is written in her stories.

That's how I want her to be, though. It's my fantasy, dude!

Any character with real personality traits isn't going to be universally appealing. That's a sex fantasy, not a character.

Believe me if Angelina Jolie wants to be my partner, I'll let her use the whip, even if I find her stupid.

[Darthfury78]

Here is an interesting link I found on Spider-Man and The Black Widow meeting for the first time:

http://www.chasingamazingblog.com/?p=902
http://majorspoilers.com/2012/04/22/...-86-july-1970/




It goes to show that The Black Widow was the first superheroine to take notice on Spider-Man.

[Darthfury78]

Here is a question that I asked Tom Brevoort regarding The Black Widow:

Now that ASM: Ends of the Earth is a success, would Marvel be willing to use The Black Widow and Spider-Man in future team-up stories in Avenging Spider-Man or a possible Black Widow mini series?

Tom Brevoort

I don't really think it has a lot of impact one way or the other. We've tried BLACK WIDOW projects and likely will again, but we've not yet found an approach that makes an ongoing book viable. And like any other character, she'll guest-star in the Spidey titles when there's an appropriate storyline, but fitting her in there isn't really a priority.

Imagine if she was feature as a guest crime fighting partner in ASM: Maximum Carnage instead of The Black Cat? Anyway, if the guy who is writing Winter Soldier wants to do a team-up story with Spider-Man x The Black Widow, he would do such a story in the pages of Avenging Spider-Man.

[Darthfury78]

No other comments? I can't believe that the talks have died down all of a sudden. Was it because of the 2 links that I have provided. Let's have some more comments about them as it was fun to read about their first meeting together.

[The Black Guardian]

Bendis turned Spider-Man and Peter into a standup comedian! In the past he was a tragic hero, he was a hero first and sometime he cracked jokes. You read Avengers with Bendis on it and it's like Spider-Man is half drunk all the time and is a pathetic hero. It's like Bendis is slamming us over the head saying "look he's the funny hero, he's funny remember!". It's pretty forced.

He always was a comedian, not a tragic hero. His story is not a tragedy at all

[Frank]

He always was a comedian, not a tragic hero. His story is not a tragedy at all

Oh no tragedy was is not part of him at all, no Ben has never died because of him. Gwen never died because of him. Seems to me you don't know much about the character. Spidey and Peter are steeped into tragedy. There's two elements from Spidey, his dramatic origin and how fun he can be when he's in the face of danger because of his defiance facing negativity. But he's not the sort to crack jokes when he drinks coffee. He's not a jokes every seconds guy like Bendis makes him like Plastic Man in JLA. Spidey is basically the icon of the thoughts ballon hero who wonder in his head if he's going to get out trouble, that's why people identify with him, he's a real guy trying to get out a dangerous situation. A few times he cracks jokes to confuse the villains but it should not be the only thing that defines him.

[Frank]

Here is an interesting link I found on Spider-Man and The Black Widow meeting for the first time:

http://www.chasingamazingblog.com/?p=902
http://majorspoilers.com/2012/04/22/...-86-july-1970/




It goes to show that The Black Widow was the first superheroine to take notice on Spider-Man.

Now I like Scarlet Johansson but she can't be close to looking this good. Buscema make her look like Monica Belluci!