Feels like the New 52 is throwing out the baby with the bathwater so far...

[gwangung]

Here's the problem I have when people think that continuity has to be erased for readers to understand comics, you don't have to erase it, just don't bring it up. With the exception of being dead, very few plot points are that important to the overall story. We don't need a recap of Knightfall every time Bane fights Batman or Death of Superman whenever Doomsday shows up.

Conversely, people shouldn't have to KNOW every single bit of continuity and have to KNOW "is it in or is it out?" in order to enjoy a book.

This obsession over continuity works both ways.

[ForeverYoung8]

I wish he was. Him and Superman... It doesn't make sense to me to make everyone so young....

but anyway...

After a bit of rage at first, a bit of confusion after that and then a bit more confusion I’ve come to the conclusion that Flashpoint happened. I know that sounds pretty obvious but what I am saying is… There was no reboot but things happened that changed reality. Pandora started doing her thing in (Flashpoint) at least; the events leading up to Flashpoint were grounded in old continuity and in some regard pre-crisis continuity heck… in LOSH Braniac 5 mentions the “flashpoint” barrier. Pre-Flashpoint hasn’t even been retconed it happened the “present” has just been transformed. I’m not sure how this is important or if it is to anyone but me but it seems kinda relevant to me. The downside is that past the surface nothing is simpler, nothing has been streamlined. The only real change is that there’s a point where you can say “this is where things changed”..

Yes, this. This is exactly how I look at it.

My shelf of trades & hardcovers is in order of continuity. The last book there for the DCU is Batman: Incorporated Volume 1. Next, is Flashpoint. Following Flashpoint I have Justice League: Origin and the rest will fall in line after that (except when Action comes out, that will go before JL).

I don't treat it as a reboot, I treat it as an event that altered reality. In my personal continuity, everything still happened. But now that reality has been altered, the characters (along with being deaged) remember some bits of the past & not others. This is how I reconcile things, and what keeps me from worrying about parts of continuity being in or out.

[TheFinisher4Ever]

Or they could use something similar to Marvel's recap pages and .1 issues. Although, most .1 issues are terrible, they dont have to be. And recap pages can be done very well like Journey into Mystery.

[jabari18]

Yes, this. This is exactly how I look at it.

My shelf of trades & hardcovers is in order of continuity. The last book there for the DCU is Batman: Incorporated Volume 1. Next, is Flashpoint. Following Flashpoint I have Justice League: Origin and the rest will fall in line after that (except when Action comes out, that will go before JL).

I don't treat it as a reboot, I treat it as an event that altered reality. In my personal continuity, everything still happened. But now that reality has been altered, the characters (along with being deaged) remember some bits of the past & not others. This is how I reconcile things, and what keeps me from worrying about parts of continuity being in or out.

It seems like you have developed a formula to achieve the best of both worlds. I shall borrow this 20 years or so from now when I experience my first reboot. Cheers

[ForeverYoung8]

I am a completely new reader and I think things are relatively easy to understand. This Earth 2 stuff is even starting to make sense. Although I am still a little confused by some stuff.

I'm actually surprised nobody has asked, but what are you confused about? Perhaps us old-timers can help you out, or direct you to something that can.

[ForeverYoung8]

It seems like you have developed a formula to achieve the best of both worlds. I shall borrow this 20 years or so from now when I experience my first reboot. Cheers

I hope it helps. It's the only way to make sense of lingering continuities, for me.

This also (in my mind) explains away old continuity that contradicted itself. In my mind, reality being altered took place immediately in the present but took some time to go backwards through the time stream. It explains why one version of Superman landed in a rocket while another is "born" on Earth (only later to land in the rocket again). It explains the differences in Pre-Crisis Jason Todd and Post-Crisis Jason Todd. WW's Post-Crisis first appearance with an established Wonder Girl. Etc etc.

Fan fiction? Absolutely. But it's what my screwy brain automatically comes up with and it seems to work for me.

[ForeverYoung8]

Double post.

10chars

[glennsim]

I put the issues in an office waiting room. Most of the people who were reading them probably had never been in a comic store before. Unless they were so moved or gripped by the story fragment they were reading that they wished to seek it out, it's unlikely to lure them into one. They generally found the books confusing rather than intriguing.

Unless your office has some reason to specifically cater to those who have an interest in sci-fi/fantasy, or at least a high percentage of people who are avid readers or anything, then that's not really the target market anyway.

Nobody ever suggested that super-hero comic books were ever going to be mainstream.

[glennsim]

Conversely, people shouldn't have to KNOW every single bit of continuity and have to KNOW "is it in or is it out?" in order to enjoy a book.

This obsession over continuity works both ways.

Exactly. If the fact isn't pertinent to the stories being told currently, then while yes, it can be ignored, then yes, it can also be done away with.

Especially in the current situation where either it may or may not still be there or something just like it can be retroactively inserted (depending on how indepth the particular character's reboot was).

[jabari18]

Exactly. If the fact isn't pertinent to the stories being told currently, then while yes, it can be ignored, then yes, it can also be done away with.

Especially in the current situation where either it may or may not still be there or something just like it can be retroactively inserted (depending on how indepth the particular character's reboot was).

Let me share my personal experience. For a while I wanted to get into comics, being a big cartoon, anime and manga fan. But was too intimidated by the 'what came before' I didn't want to pick up a book and then get confused or wondered what else needed to be known to enjoy that book. I picked up some X-men, and read a copy of Titans Annual but was confused. Fast forward to last September when DC announced their reboot. Finally I can pick up a title and immediately be able to follow it without having to wonder 'what else should I know' or What's happening here' And from that I jumped in full force to the DC bandwagon.

However, the lingering continuity is probably why I don't enjoy Green Lantern

[nosocialize100]

Batman was changed a lot, actually.

What DC is doing doesn't work in the long run, because it makes things even more confusing. Either reboot everything or just relaunch. This looks like they just picked some stuff they liked, changed or erased what they didn't like and now it looks like they are trying to solve a puzzle that's missing half of its pieces.

I totally agree. They definitely picked things they liked, for instance Batman Inc., and things they didn't...like Wonder Woman's entire back story.

[glennsim]

I totally agree. They definitely picked things they liked, for instance Batman Inc., and things they didn't...like Wonder Woman's entire back story.

Actually, they kept the stuff that was selling best as consistent as they could, and they changed the stuff that wasn't selling as well. Pretty normal business practice.

[glennsim]

Let me share my personal experience. For a while I wanted to get into comics, being a big cartoon, anime and manga fan. But was too intimidated by the 'what came before' I didn't want to pick up a book and then get confused or wondered what else needed to be known to enjoy that book. I picked up some X-men, and read a copy of Titans Annual but was confused. Fast forward to last September when DC announced their reboot. Finally I can pick up a title and immediately be able to follow it without having to wonder 'what else should I know' or What's happening here' And from that I jumped in full force to the DC bandwagon.

However, the lingering continuity is probably why I don't enjoy Green Lantern

And that's perfectly understandable. As I just mentioned above, Green Lantern was already selling really well, so there was no need to make such dramatic changes.

That said, FWIW, I think you can probably just go back to the point where Hal Jordan came back and start reading there, if you wanted to get caught up. I doubt anything from before that is going to be pertinent any time soon.

Same goes for Batman at the point where Grant Morrison started writing it.

[jabari18]

When did Hal come back?

[ForeverYoung8]

When did Hal come back?

Green Lantern: Rebirth